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	<title>Comments on: A Case Against Owning Rental Property</title>
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	<description>personal finance blog with anecdotes, advice and commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/a-case-against-owning-rental-property.html/comment-page-1#comment-292610</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 03:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The biggest thing you missed in your equation is someone else to manage your property for you.  I would not still be doing the &quot;rental property thing&quot; today for all the reasons you iterated - except for that extremely helpful expense line in my budget called &quot;property management.&quot;  Almost all of your hassles could have been almost completely removed from your life with the engagement of a property manager.  We were ready to sell our first duplex after a year of absolute chaos and headaches.  In stepped a property manager, and here we are 7 years later with 9 more multi-unit houses.  Still doing it.  Still loving it.  99% of the phone calls have left our house and moved to the property manager&#039;s cell phone.  Sorry to hear your experience has ben so difficult.  We have also had good tenants and absolutely terrible(!) tenants (I have the pictures if you want to see...), but my property manager deals with them all.  My houses have made me more financially than my mutual funds ever have.  I do not claim that the rental business is easy.  It has a much higher learning curve than depositing money into mutual funds and crossing your fingers.  But for us, it has been worth it.  not just financially, but in learning how to do business well, how to better relate to all kinds of people and how to manage money well, and other stuff I can&#039;t recall at the moment because I am so busy with my second deal this month, closing in a couple of weeks (the last one closed last Friday).

If anyone has any questions, feel free to email me at okiedokiedoo@hotmail.com.  I can&#039;t promise speedy responses.  But would love to hear from you.

Signing off,

Scott</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest thing you missed in your equation is someone else to manage your property for you.  I would not still be doing the &#8220;rental property thing&#8221; today for all the reasons you iterated &#8211; except for that extremely helpful expense line in my budget called &#8220;property management.&#8221;  Almost all of your hassles could have been almost completely removed from your life with the engagement of a property manager.  We were ready to sell our first duplex after a year of absolute chaos and headaches.  In stepped a property manager, and here we are 7 years later with 9 more multi-unit houses.  Still doing it.  Still loving it.  99% of the phone calls have left our house and moved to the property manager&#8217;s cell phone.  Sorry to hear your experience has ben so difficult.  We have also had good tenants and absolutely terrible(!) tenants (I have the pictures if you want to see&#8230;), but my property manager deals with them all.  My houses have made me more financially than my mutual funds ever have.  I do not claim that the rental business is easy.  It has a much higher learning curve than depositing money into mutual funds and crossing your fingers.  But for us, it has been worth it.  not just financially, but in learning how to do business well, how to better relate to all kinds of people and how to manage money well, and other stuff I can&#8217;t recall at the moment because I am so busy with my second deal this month, closing in a couple of weeks (the last one closed last Friday).</p>
<p>If anyone has any questions, feel free to email me at <a href="mailto:okiedokiedoo@hotmail.com">okiedokiedoo@hotmail.com</a>.  I can&#8217;t promise speedy responses.  But would love to hear from you.</p>
<p>Signing off,</p>
<p>Scott</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/a-case-against-owning-rental-property.html/comment-page-1#comment-9350</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jun 2006 18:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/a-case-against-owning-rental-property.html#comment-9350</guid>
		<description>Julie,

Thank you for your insightful comments on landlording.  

I think your posting raises several important points:

1) Tenant quality matters:

As you clearly point out, renting to students means that your place will get trashed.  Also, its been my experience that renting to poorer people is more of a hassle.  Tenants who are on public assistance tend not to be the ideal clients for your real estate business.  
 
2) Controlling expenses is important: 

Paying $400.00 to maintain your house in a manner which makes it an attractive rentable place to get the right kinds of tenants sounds like its really expensive.  I  have heard that a good way to save money is to be a do-it-your-selfer.  

I&#039;ve had mixed success with this.   For some things, its great, but for some others, its been a near disaster!

3) Management Proximity:

One thing I think you rightly point out is that you need to be close to your investment property.   The place my fiancee and I have is about 15 minutes on foot from our apartment.  Its quick so we can pop over there to do whats needed.   Driving three hours sounds like a total pain. 

Lastly I wanted to point out a couple of other interesting things about your posting. I really like the fact that you mention the importance of a low loan to value ratio when making your purchase.  It sounds like you&#039;re able to make some money because the mortage is relatively low.  Second, I wonder if you&#039;re taking the depreciation of your property and your capital gains into account.  Both of these matter. 

Okay, to shameless plug my own blog, you might be interested in having a look at my profit/loss calculations for our investment property: 

http://dinksfinance.blogspot.com/2006/06/is-our-real-estate-profitable.html

Given capitol gains and rental income, we&#039;ve made about $75,000 on our place.  

Finally, you might consider checking out John T Reeds site.  He&#039;s got some really no nonsense books on managing rental real estate.  I reccomend his stuff. 

http://www.johntreed.com/realestate.html

Best,

James</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julie,</p>
<p>Thank you for your insightful comments on landlording.  </p>
<p>I think your posting raises several important points:</p>
<p>1) Tenant quality matters:</p>
<p>As you clearly point out, renting to students means that your place will get trashed.  Also, its been my experience that renting to poorer people is more of a hassle.  Tenants who are on public assistance tend not to be the ideal clients for your real estate business.  </p>
<p>2) Controlling expenses is important: </p>
<p>Paying $400.00 to maintain your house in a manner which makes it an attractive rentable place to get the right kinds of tenants sounds like its really expensive.  I  have heard that a good way to save money is to be a do-it-your-selfer.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had mixed success with this.   For some things, its great, but for some others, its been a near disaster!</p>
<p>3) Management Proximity:</p>
<p>One thing I think you rightly point out is that you need to be close to your investment property.   The place my fiancee and I have is about 15 minutes on foot from our apartment.  Its quick so we can pop over there to do whats needed.   Driving three hours sounds like a total pain. </p>
<p>Lastly I wanted to point out a couple of other interesting things about your posting. I really like the fact that you mention the importance of a low loan to value ratio when making your purchase.  It sounds like you&#8217;re able to make some money because the mortage is relatively low.  Second, I wonder if you&#8217;re taking the depreciation of your property and your capital gains into account.  Both of these matter. </p>
<p>Okay, to shameless plug my own blog, you might be interested in having a look at my profit/loss calculations for our investment property: </p>
<p><a href="http://dinksfinance.blogspot.com/2006/06/is-our-real-estate-profitable.html" rel="nofollow">http://dinksfinance.blogspot.com/2006/06/is-our-real-estate-profitable.html</a></p>
<p>Given capitol gains and rental income, we&#8217;ve made about $75,000 on our place.  </p>
<p>Finally, you might consider checking out John T Reeds site.  He&#8217;s got some really no nonsense books on managing rental real estate.  I reccomend his stuff. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.johntreed.com/realestate.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.johntreed.com/realestate.html</a></p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>James</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/a-case-against-owning-rental-property.html/comment-page-1#comment-9275</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 12:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/a-case-against-owning-rental-property.html#comment-9275</guid>
		<description>My brother in law has had a wonderful experience in owning rental property.  He bought a 2 unit house (duplex) and is living in one side and renting out the other.  He has had a run of good tenants, and relatively small maintenance costs. The rent payments are helping to pay the overall mortgage and so in the scheme of things it is almost like a 50% return on his investment since he is also living there.  If I were going to do a rental property, this is likely how I&#039;d start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My brother in law has had a wonderful experience in owning rental property.  He bought a 2 unit house (duplex) and is living in one side and renting out the other.  He has had a run of good tenants, and relatively small maintenance costs. The rent payments are helping to pay the overall mortgage and so in the scheme of things it is almost like a 50% return on his investment since he is also living there.  If I were going to do a rental property, this is likely how I&#8217;d start.</p>
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		<title>By: traineeinvestor</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/a-case-against-owning-rental-property.html/comment-page-1#comment-9263</link>
		<dc:creator>traineeinvestor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 05:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/a-case-against-owning-rental-property.html#comment-9263</guid>
		<description>Sorry to hear about your bad experience with rental property.

I agree with your comments comments regarding much of the literature about investing in (usually) residential real estate either for either quick renovation and sale or renting. Many books and articles make it sound a lot more rewarding than it is and understate the costs, the risks and time committment needed.

My own experience over a period of ten years has been largely positive.  I have only regretted purchasing two properties (the first two that I purchased which could be viewed as a learning experience) which were difficult to let and were disposed of after a few years (one at a loss and the other at a much smaller capital gain than I had hoped for at the time of purchase). Subsequent purchases have all worked out resonably well for me. It has not been a &quot;get rich quick&quot; experience, but the rents generally get paid on time and capital values have appreciated. Certainly, there have been occasional short term vacancies and regular outgoings and maintenance - but these are all things to be expected when owning a rental property.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to hear about your bad experience with rental property.</p>
<p>I agree with your comments comments regarding much of the literature about investing in (usually) residential real estate either for either quick renovation and sale or renting. Many books and articles make it sound a lot more rewarding than it is and understate the costs, the risks and time committment needed.</p>
<p>My own experience over a period of ten years has been largely positive.  I have only regretted purchasing two properties (the first two that I purchased which could be viewed as a learning experience) which were difficult to let and were disposed of after a few years (one at a loss and the other at a much smaller capital gain than I had hoped for at the time of purchase). Subsequent purchases have all worked out resonably well for me. It has not been a &#8220;get rich quick&#8221; experience, but the rents generally get paid on time and capital values have appreciated. Certainly, there have been occasional short term vacancies and regular outgoings and maintenance &#8211; but these are all things to be expected when owning a rental property.</p>
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		<title>By: PFDigg.com</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/a-case-against-owning-rental-property.html/comment-page-1#comment-9255</link>
		<dc:creator>PFDigg.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 01:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/a-case-against-owning-rental-property.html#comment-9255</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Buying property for rental purposes may be bad&lt;/strong&gt;

Guest-blogger Julie Ali writes a riveting expose about the issues of being a rental property owner. But what I love is the cyclical attitude of people towards renting. It&#039;s &quot;why pay the mortgage for the landlord&quot; vs. &quot;it&#039;s more economical to rent&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Buying property for rental purposes may be bad</strong></p>
<p>Guest-blogger Julie Ali writes a riveting expose about the issues of being a rental property owner. But what I love is the cyclical attitude of people towards renting. It&#8217;s &#8220;why pay the mortgage for the landlord&#8221; vs. &#8220;it&#8217;s more economical to rent&#8221;</p>
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