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	<title>Comments on: Considering Replacing A Hot Water Heater</title>
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	<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html</link>
	<description>personal finance blog with anecdotes, advice and commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: Gilbey Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-273585</link>
		<dc:creator>Gilbey Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 14:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-273585</guid>
		<description>I recently got a price for replacing my aging electric tank heater. The quote for a 65gal was $800-1000, installed, depending on the model. I also got a price to switch over to gas - we have a line into the house. That would have been $1000 more. 

We had just returned from Europe where tankless water heaters are very common, so I did a little research to see if it would work for me. 

With an unused 200amp breaker panel available, I chose to go with an electric Bosch tankless.
My first choice was a 120amp model. My friend, who is a remodeling contractor recommended the 80amp. I live in northern Virginia - Bosch has a map on their site to help you choose. 

I did the measurements for heat rise and gallons per minute and it looked like 80amps would just work, and it did. Temperature rise in winter, from entry to shower is 70 F degrees. In summer 35 F degrees. In winter there is just enough hot water for a shower and one faucet, with a little variation in temperature. In summer, enough for at least two showers at a time.

The electric company gives us detailed reports, each month, with our bill. The results show a 19 percent cost drop since the tankess heater went in. I might add that buying it online and installing it myself put the total cost at $650. And I hope to get some of that back with a tax credit.

I’ve done more research since then and put it on a site called www.installing-a-tankless-water-heater.com. There are some ads on there, but the information is free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently got a price for replacing my aging electric tank heater. The quote for a 65gal was $800-1000, installed, depending on the model. I also got a price to switch over to gas &#8211; we have a line into the house. That would have been $1000 more. </p>
<p>We had just returned from Europe where tankless water heaters are very common, so I did a little research to see if it would work for me. </p>
<p>With an unused 200amp breaker panel available, I chose to go with an electric Bosch tankless.<br />
My first choice was a 120amp model. My friend, who is a remodeling contractor recommended the 80amp. I live in northern Virginia &#8211; Bosch has a map on their site to help you choose. </p>
<p>I did the measurements for heat rise and gallons per minute and it looked like 80amps would just work, and it did. Temperature rise in winter, from entry to shower is 70 F degrees. In summer 35 F degrees. In winter there is just enough hot water for a shower and one faucet, with a little variation in temperature. In summer, enough for at least two showers at a time.</p>
<p>The electric company gives us detailed reports, each month, with our bill. The results show a 19 percent cost drop since the tankess heater went in. I might add that buying it online and installing it myself put the total cost at $650. And I hope to get some of that back with a tax credit.</p>
<p>I’ve done more research since then and put it on a site called <a href="http://www.installing-a-tankless-water-heater.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.installing-a-tankless-water-heater.com</a>. There are some ads on there, but the information is free.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-212179</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-212179</guid>
		<description>Matt: No fixation whatsoever, it was just a data point and I shouldn&#039;t have implied that I wasn&#039;t ever going tankless because they didn&#039;t offer it. I just meant to indicate that they didn&#039;t offer it so I hadn&#039;t considered it (yet) for the basis of this analysis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt: No fixation whatsoever, it was just a data point and I shouldn&#8217;t have implied that I wasn&#8217;t ever going tankless because they didn&#8217;t offer it. I just meant to indicate that they didn&#8217;t offer it so I hadn&#8217;t considered it (yet) for the basis of this analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-212173</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-212173</guid>
		<description>Why the fixation on buying through the utility? You can almost certainly get a private contractor to do the install for less...and if you&#039;re really unable to get a gas one, you can install an electric heater yourself.

We&#039;re replacing our old tankful heater with a tankless model this spring. We might add a second for laundry/dishwasher later on, but frankly even with the tankful heater we&#039;ve kept in the habit of limiting ourselves to one heavy-water-use application at a time.

My last two apartments before buying this house had tankless heaters, and they were amazing. Instant hot water...no more waiting 5 minutes with the water running before hot stuff starts coming out. And the cost savings are substantial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why the fixation on buying through the utility? You can almost certainly get a private contractor to do the install for less&#8230;and if you&#8217;re really unable to get a gas one, you can install an electric heater yourself.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re replacing our old tankful heater with a tankless model this spring. We might add a second for laundry/dishwasher later on, but frankly even with the tankful heater we&#8217;ve kept in the habit of limiting ourselves to one heavy-water-use application at a time.</p>
<p>My last two apartments before buying this house had tankless heaters, and they were amazing. Instant hot water&#8230;no more waiting 5 minutes with the water running before hot stuff starts coming out. And the cost savings are substantial.</p>
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		<title>By: denon</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-210385</link>
		<dc:creator>denon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-210385</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve used Marathon water heaters in multiple houses for many years. IMHO, they&#039;re the absolute best product on the market. ( http://www.marathonheaters.com/  ). They&#039;re super-insulated, so the temp drops very little over several days, they&#039;re very well designed for easy installation, and they&#039;re made of entirely rust-proof materials (PVCs, etc). The bottom inside is bowl-shaped, so it tends to clean out sediment better if you drain it, etc. Check with your electric company if they happen to sell them, and also check if you can get a discounted rate on the electricity used by it. Many will sell meter it separately. I&#039;ve been nothing but thrilled with these units.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve used Marathon water heaters in multiple houses for many years. IMHO, they&#8217;re the absolute best product on the market. ( <a href="http://www.marathonheaters.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.marathonheaters.com/</a>  ). They&#8217;re super-insulated, so the temp drops very little over several days, they&#8217;re very well designed for easy installation, and they&#8217;re made of entirely rust-proof materials (PVCs, etc). The bottom inside is bowl-shaped, so it tends to clean out sediment better if you drain it, etc. Check with your electric company if they happen to sell them, and also check if you can get a discounted rate on the electricity used by it. Many will sell meter it separately. I&#8217;ve been nothing but thrilled with these units.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-209616</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-209616</guid>
		<description>I looked into these when I finished my basement last year for fear of my old tank bursting. I found a few things. They can be very expensive to install depending on the age/style of your home. As you can imagine it takes massive current to instantly heat water, even on a 240V setup. As a result, very thick  wire (expensive) is needed to wire the electrical and I think most need a 200 Amp circuit breaker. The proximity of the unit to the circuit breaker and the specs of the breaker box effects installation cost. 

Flow rate was also a concern with the electric unit. It seemed you needed the most expensive unit just to cover a 3 gallon per minute rate, which is about a shower and dishwasher at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looked into these when I finished my basement last year for fear of my old tank bursting. I found a few things. They can be very expensive to install depending on the age/style of your home. As you can imagine it takes massive current to instantly heat water, even on a 240V setup. As a result, very thick  wire (expensive) is needed to wire the electrical and I think most need a 200 Amp circuit breaker. The proximity of the unit to the circuit breaker and the specs of the breaker box effects installation cost. </p>
<p>Flow rate was also a concern with the electric unit. It seemed you needed the most expensive unit just to cover a 3 gallon per minute rate, which is about a shower and dishwasher at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: saladdin</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-209592</link>
		<dc:creator>saladdin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-209592</guid>
		<description>Oh my goodness. Paying installation of hundreds of dollars for the simplest thing ever.  Pay someone for installation and they jack up the cost of the heater (that you can buy at Lowe&#039;s) and then add a few hundred for installing. I am in the wrong business.

It is easier to install an electric water heater then hook up a VCR.
A blind, deaf, one armed monkey can install a electric water heater in a few hours. Save that money for yourself.

You can also turn the temp down on the heating elements to save electricity.

And buying a warranty for something that can easily last 10 years anyway?
Anyone who says to buy the warranty must be being paid to do so. That is without a doubt the worst advice in this entire comment thread.

saladdin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my goodness. Paying installation of hundreds of dollars for the simplest thing ever.  Pay someone for installation and they jack up the cost of the heater (that you can buy at Lowe&#8217;s) and then add a few hundred for installing. I am in the wrong business.</p>
<p>It is easier to install an electric water heater then hook up a VCR.<br />
A blind, deaf, one armed monkey can install a electric water heater in a few hours. Save that money for yourself.</p>
<p>You can also turn the temp down on the heating elements to save electricity.</p>
<p>And buying a warranty for something that can easily last 10 years anyway?<br />
Anyone who says to buy the warranty must be being paid to do so. That is without a doubt the worst advice in this entire comment thread.</p>
<p>saladdin</p>
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		<title>By: TTFK</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-209503</link>
		<dc:creator>TTFK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 02:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-209503</guid>
		<description>We installed a Renai gas tankless hot water heater to replace a 50g regular unit, and so far we love it.  While it does take a few seconds for the hot water to get to the tap, it is a minor inconvenience at worse.

For anyone considering gas, note this: When they installed our unit, they had to run a new 1&quot; gas line to the wall for the heater.  The resulting installation cost brought a $900 heater up to almost $2500.   On the plus side, between that and a high-efficiency washer/dryer we are saving over $80/month in water and electric costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We installed a Renai gas tankless hot water heater to replace a 50g regular unit, and so far we love it.  While it does take a few seconds for the hot water to get to the tap, it is a minor inconvenience at worse.</p>
<p>For anyone considering gas, note this: When they installed our unit, they had to run a new 1&#8243; gas line to the wall for the heater.  The resulting installation cost brought a $900 heater up to almost $2500.   On the plus side, between that and a high-efficiency washer/dryer we are saving over $80/month in water and electric costs.</p>
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		<title>By: Jose Anes</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-209477</link>
		<dc:creator>Jose Anes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-209477</guid>
		<description>Just posted an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.moneyandinvesting.net/?p=102&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article&lt;/a&gt; explaining why you should go for the longer warranty heater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just posted an <a href="http://www.moneyandinvesting.net/?p=102" rel="nofollow">article</a> explaining why you should go for the longer warranty heater.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-209470</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-209470</guid>
		<description>CK: electric heat pump, i&#039;m in a townhouse so there&#039;s no chance i could install a propane tank outside, the HOA would have conniptions... plus that&#039;s a lot of effort just to get gas. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CK: electric heat pump, i&#8217;m in a townhouse so there&#8217;s no chance i could install a propane tank outside, the HOA would have conniptions&#8230; plus that&#8217;s a lot of effort just to get gas. <img src='http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: CK</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-209468</link>
		<dc:creator>CK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-209468</guid>
		<description>Jimbo-  How is your home heated?

Could you install a propane tank outside?

Just some thoughts.

CK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimbo-  How is your home heated?</p>
<p>Could you install a propane tank outside?</p>
<p>Just some thoughts.</p>
<p>CK</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-209467</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-209467</guid>
		<description>I can only agree to the first comment. Maybe tankless has come a long way but my personal experience in Europe (where tankless is pretty common) is that most of the time I had a hard time filling up a tub with water before the unit would overheat and shut itself down for safety reasons. So again, unless they have become a lot better I can not recommend the tankless route.

Cheers Alex</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can only agree to the first comment. Maybe tankless has come a long way but my personal experience in Europe (where tankless is pretty common) is that most of the time I had a hard time filling up a tub with water before the unit would overheat and shut itself down for safety reasons. So again, unless they have become a lot better I can not recommend the tankless route.</p>
<p>Cheers Alex</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Arnold</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-209454</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-209454</guid>
		<description>Dude, grow a pair and install it yourself.  It&#039;s easy and will save you $500.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dude, grow a pair and install it yourself.  It&#8217;s easy and will save you $500.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-209450</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-209450</guid>
		<description>In california they are starting to build houses with tankless water heaters. Its these little units that you hook up to the pipes that only activates when you request hot water. It works under the same principle of a espresso machine where you get scalding hot water instantly. 

A normal water heater will constantly be heating up 50 gallons of water whether your using it or not...therefore wasting a lot of energy. 

The only reason houses arn&#039;t getting built with these is because of the plumbing industry&#039;s unions....if everyone had these units in the house, plumbers would go broke! 

These units can be hooked up to you existing water heaters as well and basically the tank is there to hold cold water and the unit pumps it out and heats it before delivering it to your faucet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In california they are starting to build houses with tankless water heaters. Its these little units that you hook up to the pipes that only activates when you request hot water. It works under the same principle of a espresso machine where you get scalding hot water instantly. </p>
<p>A normal water heater will constantly be heating up 50 gallons of water whether your using it or not&#8230;therefore wasting a lot of energy. </p>
<p>The only reason houses arn&#8217;t getting built with these is because of the plumbing industry&#8217;s unions&#8230;.if everyone had these units in the house, plumbers would go broke! </p>
<p>These units can be hooked up to you existing water heaters as well and basically the tank is there to hold cold water and the unit pumps it out and heats it before delivering it to your faucet.</p>
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		<title>By: Traciatim</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-209440</link>
		<dc:creator>Traciatim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-209440</guid>
		<description>We actually have a tankless heater, but for a different purpose. Our home used to have an oil furnace that would heat the hot water that goes to our radiators for home heating. Now, it&#039;s a small tankless heater instead and it works wonders. The biggest complaint I hear about them is how long it takes for them to get hot water flowing, and how little water you can use at once. 

In an ideal setup you would have a large &#039;whole home&#039; tankless heater on your incoming water line. Then you would have small booster heaters on your showers, and possibly your dishwasher. That way you don&#039;t have to worry about running a little water in the kitchen when something else is going. 

I just find that setup far too expensive for the benefits. Remember, if you live somewhere that gets cold and your water heater is in the house it&#039;s &quot;losses&quot; will be heating your home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We actually have a tankless heater, but for a different purpose. Our home used to have an oil furnace that would heat the hot water that goes to our radiators for home heating. Now, it&#8217;s a small tankless heater instead and it works wonders. The biggest complaint I hear about them is how long it takes for them to get hot water flowing, and how little water you can use at once. </p>
<p>In an ideal setup you would have a large &#8216;whole home&#8217; tankless heater on your incoming water line. Then you would have small booster heaters on your showers, and possibly your dishwasher. That way you don&#8217;t have to worry about running a little water in the kitchen when something else is going. </p>
<p>I just find that setup far too expensive for the benefits. Remember, if you live somewhere that gets cold and your water heater is in the house it&#8217;s &#8220;losses&#8221; will be heating your home.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html/comment-page-1#comment-209438</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/considering-replacing-a-hot-water-heater.html#comment-209438</guid>
		<description>CK: We don&#039;t have gas lines so gas isn&#039;t an option at all. :(

Clever Dude: The timer idea is really good, I&#039;ll look into that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CK: We don&#8217;t have gas lines so gas isn&#8217;t an option at all. <img src='http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Clever Dude: The timer idea is really good, I&#8217;ll look into that!</p>
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