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	<title>Comments on: Do the Chinese Not Like Debt?</title>
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	<description>personal finance blog with anecdotes, advice and commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: Ally Debt</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-350225</link>
		<dc:creator>Ally Debt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-350225</guid>
		<description>I am American (US citizen) and I was taught that debt helps others be employed. It is not a selfish thing more like a system. If we all grew our own veggies why would we need  aproduce section in the grocery store. As globalization grows and cultures mix you hear all about different ideas and how debt should be tamed or untamed. My question is &quot;is credit card debt still used to pay employees at the end of the day or has it been re-engineered for the greedy. If so, maybe I should pay off my debt especially if I am employing Chinese minded Americans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am American (US citizen) and I was taught that debt helps others be employed. It is not a selfish thing more like a system. If we all grew our own veggies why would we need  aproduce section in the grocery store. As globalization grows and cultures mix you hear all about different ideas and how debt should be tamed or untamed. My question is &#8220;is credit card debt still used to pay employees at the end of the day or has it been re-engineered for the greedy. If so, maybe I should pay off my debt especially if I am employing Chinese minded Americans.</p>
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		<title>By: ally hing</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-297462</link>
		<dc:creator>ally hing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-297462</guid>
		<description>If we all save more and avoid big debts, all prices of goods will be lower, including housing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we all save more and avoid big debts, all prices of goods will be lower, including housing.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5264</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 13:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5264</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a great story Andy, thank you for sharing it.

MM - &quot;Without a reliable pension system and safety net like medicare, people always save for the rainy days.&quot; I&#039;m sure you&#039;re aware of this but a lot of people might not be and it&#039;s that whereas the West is used to relying on retirement homes and communities to care for the elderly, Chinese people don&#039;t because of how the family is structured. The children care for the parents in their old age and so the need for a financial safety net such as a reliable pension system (though ask retired airline pilots how that pension is doing, not as reliable as it once was!) and medicare simply isn&#039;t as critical as they are here. So I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a good reason as to why people save for a rainy day. 

Andy&#039;s story, however, does explain a reason why you would save for a rainy day (mistrust in banks, especially since they can go bankrupt) but not necessarily why you wouldn&#039;t borrow. If you borrow the money from a credit card company, they can&#039;t come and order you to pay it off, you can always make minimum payments so you are safe there but the fiscally conservative attitude would be a reason why you wouldn&#039;t want to overspend (i.e. borrow to spend). I hope that all made sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a great story Andy, thank you for sharing it.</p>
<p>MM &#8211; &#8220;Without a reliable pension system and safety net like medicare, people always save for the rainy days.&#8221; I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re aware of this but a lot of people might not be and it&#8217;s that whereas the West is used to relying on retirement homes and communities to care for the elderly, Chinese people don&#8217;t because of how the family is structured. The children care for the parents in their old age and so the need for a financial safety net such as a reliable pension system (though ask retired airline pilots how that pension is doing, not as reliable as it once was!) and medicare simply isn&#8217;t as critical as they are here. So I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a good reason as to why people save for a rainy day. </p>
<p>Andy&#8217;s story, however, does explain a reason why you would save for a rainy day (mistrust in banks, especially since they can go bankrupt) but not necessarily why you wouldn&#8217;t borrow. If you borrow the money from a credit card company, they can&#8217;t come and order you to pay it off, you can always make minimum payments so you are safe there but the fiscally conservative attitude would be a reason why you wouldn&#8217;t want to overspend (i.e. borrow to spend). I hope that all made sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5263</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 13:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5263</guid>
		<description>I decend from poor German immigrants; three generations ago on my mother&#039;s side and four generations on my father&#039;s side.  When we cleared out my Great Grandfather&#039;s house after his passing, we hit some woodwork with a piece of furniture and found he had stashed money in secret compartments throughout the house.  He lived though the turn of the century and the great Depression and didn&#039;t believe in banks, but he sure did save.  He never used credit.  On my mother&#039;s side, her parents had separate envelopes they put money in until each bill was due.  They did this before spending for anything else.  They never had a checking account or credit cards.  My parents followed suit, but I can see the idea of credit come into the picture as my Dad used the GI Bill to get a low interest house loan and help with college while he worked his ass off.  They never had a new car until I was out of the house and paid all their bills on a monthly basis.  My brother and I haven&#039;t fallen far from the tree.  We both have no loans outstanding other than very conservative houses, pay our credit cards off every month, save to buy expensive items such as a vehicle and invest to create wealth growth.  My father retired a successful businessman and has a few million bucks that they can not spend even in their later years, because they just can&#039;t change now.  Even today, if I experience a winfall from my job&#039;s profit sharing or a successful investment, Dad always tells me to &quot;go south with a little bit of it&quot; a strange saying he heard from my G-grandfather decades ago that means &quot;save some of it&quot;.

I work with people who spend their entire paycheck every other week, in debt up to their eyeballs and if anything happens to effect that vicious cycle, they go beyond broke.  I can&#039;t figure what makes them different or why they do it, other than they can and The Man tells them its OK to give all their money away because there&#039;s always more to borrow and they beleive it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I decend from poor German immigrants; three generations ago on my mother&#8217;s side and four generations on my father&#8217;s side.  When we cleared out my Great Grandfather&#8217;s house after his passing, we hit some woodwork with a piece of furniture and found he had stashed money in secret compartments throughout the house.  He lived though the turn of the century and the great Depression and didn&#8217;t believe in banks, but he sure did save.  He never used credit.  On my mother&#8217;s side, her parents had separate envelopes they put money in until each bill was due.  They did this before spending for anything else.  They never had a checking account or credit cards.  My parents followed suit, but I can see the idea of credit come into the picture as my Dad used the GI Bill to get a low interest house loan and help with college while he worked his ass off.  They never had a new car until I was out of the house and paid all their bills on a monthly basis.  My brother and I haven&#8217;t fallen far from the tree.  We both have no loans outstanding other than very conservative houses, pay our credit cards off every month, save to buy expensive items such as a vehicle and invest to create wealth growth.  My father retired a successful businessman and has a few million bucks that they can not spend even in their later years, because they just can&#8217;t change now.  Even today, if I experience a winfall from my job&#8217;s profit sharing or a successful investment, Dad always tells me to &#8220;go south with a little bit of it&#8221; a strange saying he heard from my G-grandfather decades ago that means &#8220;save some of it&#8221;.</p>
<p>I work with people who spend their entire paycheck every other week, in debt up to their eyeballs and if anything happens to effect that vicious cycle, they go beyond broke.  I can&#8217;t figure what makes them different or why they do it, other than they can and The Man tells them its OK to give all their money away because there&#8217;s always more to borrow and they beleive it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Yan</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5257</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Yan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 09:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5257</guid>
		<description>You will &#64257;nd that even Chinese who live in countries with reliable pension systems (e.g. New Zealand, which has state-provided healthcare), the pattern is identical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You will &#64257;nd that even Chinese who live in countries with reliable pension systems (e.g. New Zealand, which has state-provided healthcare), the pattern is identical.</p>
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		<title>By: Personal Finance Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5254</link>
		<dc:creator>Personal Finance Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 08:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5254</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting discussion. I will attribute the high saving rate to the lack of safety. Without a reliable pension system and safety net like medicare, people always save for the rainy days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting discussion. I will attribute the high saving rate to the lack of safety. Without a reliable pension system and safety net like medicare, people always save for the rainy days.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Yan</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5253</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Yan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 06:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5253</guid>
		<description>You mean other races &lt;i&gt;don’t&lt;/i&gt; do this? Wow. Surely the normal view is: if someone advances you credit, then you pay them back on the day they demand?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You mean other races <i>don’t</i> do this? Wow. Surely the normal view is: if someone advances you credit, then you pay them back on the day they demand?</p>
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		<title>By: RS</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5251</link>
		<dc:creator>RS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 03:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5251</guid>
		<description>Very interesting stuff. It always is always very interesting for me to see how different cultures do things differently. Especially with money matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting stuff. It always is always very interesting for me to see how different cultures do things differently. Especially with money matters.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5233</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 23:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5233</guid>
		<description>Interesting perspective on this.  One other thing is that most non-young Chinese are very conservative with money, much as the Americans were pre-WWII.  Mortgages were as rare in the US then as they are in China now.  Of course, that&#039;s changing rapidly.

The other week I asked a couple of Chinese co-workers why the savings rate was so high there.  They both said that it&#039;s because most people are so conservative and risk-averse that they save for everything before buying it.  Could you imagine anyone saving for their entire life to buy a house in the US? If the savings rate numbers were redone to take into account things that Americans buy on credit vs. saving for (i.e., house, car, school), I think the difference would be much lower.  The ready availability of credit and willingness to use it also has the effect of essentially preventing anyone from actually being able to save enough to buy a house, since the prices are so high and rise so much faster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting perspective on this.  One other thing is that most non-young Chinese are very conservative with money, much as the Americans were pre-WWII.  Mortgages were as rare in the US then as they are in China now.  Of course, that&#8217;s changing rapidly.</p>
<p>The other week I asked a couple of Chinese co-workers why the savings rate was so high there.  They both said that it&#8217;s because most people are so conservative and risk-averse that they save for everything before buying it.  Could you imagine anyone saving for their entire life to buy a house in the US? If the savings rate numbers were redone to take into account things that Americans buy on credit vs. saving for (i.e., house, car, school), I think the difference would be much lower.  The ready availability of credit and willingness to use it also has the effect of essentially preventing anyone from actually being able to save enough to buy a house, since the prices are so high and rise so much faster.</p>
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		<title>By: Moussa</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5244</link>
		<dc:creator>Moussa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 21:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5244</guid>
		<description>Amen to that Jonathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen to that Jonathan</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5241</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 20:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5241</guid>
		<description>Just give Citi and HSBC a couple of generations, it&#039;ll happen.   And they know it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just give Citi and HSBC a couple of generations, it&#8217;ll happen.   And they know it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5240</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 20:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5240</guid>
		<description>Old school Chinese people like to save save save. If they can&#039;t pay for it in cash, then they most likely wont buy it at all.  Americans could learn alot from them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Old school Chinese people like to save save save. If they can&#8217;t pay for it in cash, then they most likely wont buy it at all.  Americans could learn alot from them.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim MMF</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5239</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim MMF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 20:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5239</guid>
		<description>Apparently, the Chinese have it right. Being indebted to someone else sucks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently, the Chinese have it right. Being indebted to someone else sucks.</p>
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		<title>By: JPC</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5235</link>
		<dc:creator>JPC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 19:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5235</guid>
		<description>Hey Jim--

I&#039;ve experienced the restaurant tab owing myself and have see it as a kid between my mother and aunt after dim sum.  My sister and I call it &quot;check kung fu.&quot;  You&#039;d see my mom and aunt duking it out with the check.  They&#039;d literally each grab one end and start to pull.  They&#039;d both get red with exertion and growls of frustration can be heard during the struggle.  The victor usually has a smirk on her face that would linger until the check has been paid.  The loser would utter promises of retribution at the next dim sum meal.  As a kid, it was better than courtside seats at Wimbledon.  My eyeballs would just follow the action of two matronly looking ladies getting their game on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jim&#8211;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve experienced the restaurant tab owing myself and have see it as a kid between my mother and aunt after dim sum.  My sister and I call it &#8220;check kung fu.&#8221;  You&#8217;d see my mom and aunt duking it out with the check.  They&#8217;d literally each grab one end and start to pull.  They&#8217;d both get red with exertion and growls of frustration can be heard during the struggle.  The victor usually has a smirk on her face that would linger until the check has been paid.  The loser would utter promises of retribution at the next dim sum meal.  As a kid, it was better than courtside seats at Wimbledon.  My eyeballs would just follow the action of two matronly looking ladies getting their game on.</p>
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		<title>By: Inchoate Random Abstractions</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/do-the-chinese-not-like-debt.html/comment-page-1#comment-5234</link>
		<dc:creator>Inchoate Random Abstractions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 18:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=891#comment-5234</guid>
		<description>Jim - A thoughtful yet funny response.   As a Chinese-American, I&#039;ve fought over many a restaurant bill myself.  And no, I have never carried a balance on my credit cards, although I&#039;ve been tempted to with all the zero % balance transfer offers.  If my parents could have, they would have paid for everything in cash.  I think they&#039;ve only had 2 car loans in their entire lifetimes and they paid off their mortgage in 11 years.  I&#039;m a bit more liberal than they are, but I too paid off my car loan and student loans before I had to.  Maybe not the wisest move on my part (both had fairly low interest rates), but I hated the thought of being in debt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim &#8211; A thoughtful yet funny response.   As a Chinese-American, I&#8217;ve fought over many a restaurant bill myself.  And no, I have never carried a balance on my credit cards, although I&#8217;ve been tempted to with all the zero % balance transfer offers.  If my parents could have, they would have paid for everything in cash.  I think they&#8217;ve only had 2 car loans in their entire lifetimes and they paid off their mortgage in 11 years.  I&#8217;m a bit more liberal than they are, but I too paid off my car loan and student loans before I had to.  Maybe not the wisest move on my part (both had fairly low interest rates), but I hated the thought of being in debt.</p>
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