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	<title>Comments on: Don&#8217;t Pay Your Dues</title>
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	<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html</link>
	<description>personal finance blog with anecdotes, advice and commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: katy</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-291287</link>
		<dc:creator>katy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 13:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-291287</guid>
		<description>thank you, Gary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you, Gary.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-236120</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 15:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-236120</guid>
		<description>Gary, well put.  The best advice I&#039;ve received in a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary, well put.  The best advice I&#8217;ve received in a while.</p>
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		<title>By: thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-235624</link>
		<dc:creator>thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 20:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-235624</guid>
		<description>I think a big problem today is that the latest generation expects everything yesterday. In one word, these college kids are spoiled. I think you have to bust your ass in the beginning to prove your worth. I hear people complaining about their jobs and how they don&#039;t get the rewards they feel entitled to receive. But the truth is, they haven&#039;t worked for it. The expectation is that &quot;hey, I&#039;ve been here a year, I deserve this.&quot; but haven&#039;t earned it.

I am by no means advocating working your fingers to the bone for the same company to not be rewarded, however there is a certain level of give and take in these relationships. You aren&#039;t special until you prove you are special. bitching and moaning on the sidelines and blaming &quot;the system&quot; for your lack of growth is your problem, not anyone elses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a big problem today is that the latest generation expects everything yesterday. In one word, these college kids are spoiled. I think you have to bust your ass in the beginning to prove your worth. I hear people complaining about their jobs and how they don&#8217;t get the rewards they feel entitled to receive. But the truth is, they haven&#8217;t worked for it. The expectation is that &#8220;hey, I&#8217;ve been here a year, I deserve this.&#8221; but haven&#8217;t earned it.</p>
<p>I am by no means advocating working your fingers to the bone for the same company to not be rewarded, however there is a certain level of give and take in these relationships. You aren&#8217;t special until you prove you are special. bitching and moaning on the sidelines and blaming &#8220;the system&#8221; for your lack of growth is your problem, not anyone elses.</p>
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		<title>By: Shanti</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-235396</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 21:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-235396</guid>
		<description>Now THIS is a brilliant post! Yes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now THIS is a brilliant post! Yes!</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-235340</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 16:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-235340</guid>
		<description>Truer words have never been spoken.  There is no one who lies on their death bed and says &quot;I wish I had spent more time at the office&quot;.  I &quot;paid my dues&quot; for 35 years and one of the world&#039;s largest corporations had a &quot;reduction in force&quot; RIF vs. RIP recently.  Almost all the participants in a Defined Benefit Pension Plan that closed enrollment a decade ago were shown the door, including me.

The company saved themselves from having to make a &quot;lump sum&quot; distribution to me at age 65 well north of $500,000.  Now I will get monthly annuity payments of a little over $1,000 a month with rights of survivorship.  This is my reward for years of &quot;hard work, overtime and dedication&quot; to the company.

If I were starting out again in my 20&#039;s I would pursue every dream I ever had and live life to the fullest.  In the 70&#039;s we were still tied to conventions, tied to the &quot;promise of the big corporation&quot; and &quot;upward mobility&quot;.  It doesn&#039;t matter whether you &quot;keep up with the Jones&quot; because they are worried about keeping up with you.  People would be surprised how little other people think about you or what they think about you.  They are worried about their own problems.

Enjoy life to the fullest, use your creativity and energy to chart your own path.  You will make mistakes, get hard knocks and bruises, but don&#039;t lock yourself in a &quot;prison cell&quot; to placate some &quot;responsibility&quot;.  I can&#039;t tell you the number of times that when people at work asked me how I was doing I would answer &quot;just respecting the pay check&quot;..... it&#039;s no way to live folks.  Be wiser than me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Truer words have never been spoken.  There is no one who lies on their death bed and says &#8220;I wish I had spent more time at the office&#8221;.  I &#8220;paid my dues&#8221; for 35 years and one of the world&#8217;s largest corporations had a &#8220;reduction in force&#8221; RIF vs. RIP recently.  Almost all the participants in a Defined Benefit Pension Plan that closed enrollment a decade ago were shown the door, including me.</p>
<p>The company saved themselves from having to make a &#8220;lump sum&#8221; distribution to me at age 65 well north of $500,000.  Now I will get monthly annuity payments of a little over $1,000 a month with rights of survivorship.  This is my reward for years of &#8220;hard work, overtime and dedication&#8221; to the company.</p>
<p>If I were starting out again in my 20&#8217;s I would pursue every dream I ever had and live life to the fullest.  In the 70&#8217;s we were still tied to conventions, tied to the &#8220;promise of the big corporation&#8221; and &#8220;upward mobility&#8221;.  It doesn&#8217;t matter whether you &#8220;keep up with the Jones&#8221; because they are worried about keeping up with you.  People would be surprised how little other people think about you or what they think about you.  They are worried about their own problems.</p>
<p>Enjoy life to the fullest, use your creativity and energy to chart your own path.  You will make mistakes, get hard knocks and bruises, but don&#8217;t lock yourself in a &#8220;prison cell&#8221; to placate some &#8220;responsibility&#8221;.  I can&#8217;t tell you the number of times that when people at work asked me how I was doing I would answer &#8220;just respecting the pay check&#8221;&#8230;.. it&#8217;s no way to live folks.  Be wiser than me.</p>
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		<title>By: Kamantha</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-234602</link>
		<dc:creator>Kamantha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 19:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-234602</guid>
		<description>At my workplace, you cant get promoted unless someone dies, or retires (or unless you magically get a law degree). So how I counteract that reality is by going back to grad school and using the &quot;downtime&quot; at work to study. Bidding my time means to me going back to school, graduating and then leaving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At my workplace, you cant get promoted unless someone dies, or retires (or unless you magically get a law degree). So how I counteract that reality is by going back to grad school and using the &#8220;downtime&#8221; at work to study. Bidding my time means to me going back to school, graduating and then leaving.</p>
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		<title>By: squawkfox</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-234576</link>
		<dc:creator>squawkfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 17:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-234576</guid>
		<description>Dave: You are so right. &quot;Advancement by tenure&quot; can indeed breed an undesirable culture. When a company is full of 15+ year employees, it&#039;s impossible as a newer hire to ever become senior and see some benefit. I wish the culture could be extracted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave: You are so right. &#8220;Advancement by tenure&#8221; can indeed breed an undesirable culture. When a company is full of 15+ year employees, it&#8217;s impossible as a newer hire to ever become senior and see some benefit. I wish the culture could be extracted.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave of Applied Prosperity</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-234575</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave of Applied Prosperity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 17:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-234575</guid>
		<description>A ready example of the &quot;undesirable culture&quot; Dave talked about in the last comment is many facets of government work.  I&#039;ve worked as a vendor to schools in the Las Vegas area; where leadership positions were often filled based upon the vacuum created by a fast growing market, rather than advancement thru a meritocracy.  This resulted in many &quot;dictatorships&quot; that left teachers applying at different schools; it could get ugly.

Here is a chapter from a new book (In The Event Of My Untimely Demise) that really captures the essence of what Ron was talking about, above; namely balance between merit and experience:  www.glennbeck.com/downloads/ude.pdf 

As always, it comes down to the value of all parties involved.  Little or no value, little or no money in little or no pockets.  Conveyance of the value provided is also something to keep in mind.

--Dave Charbonneau</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A ready example of the &#8220;undesirable culture&#8221; Dave talked about in the last comment is many facets of government work.  I&#8217;ve worked as a vendor to schools in the Las Vegas area; where leadership positions were often filled based upon the vacuum created by a fast growing market, rather than advancement thru a meritocracy.  This resulted in many &#8220;dictatorships&#8221; that left teachers applying at different schools; it could get ugly.</p>
<p>Here is a chapter from a new book (In The Event Of My Untimely Demise) that really captures the essence of what Ron was talking about, above; namely balance between merit and experience:  <a href="http://www.glennbeck.com/downloads/ude.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.glennbeck.com/downloads/ude.pdf</a> </p>
<p>As always, it comes down to the value of all parties involved.  Little or no value, little or no money in little or no pockets.  Conveyance of the value provided is also something to keep in mind.</p>
<p>&#8211;Dave Charbonneau</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-234551</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 15:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-234551</guid>
		<description>Overall, I feel strongly that a company (especially a smaller company) employing &quot;advancement by tenure&quot; will unavoidably breed an undesirable culture.

At my previous employer (&lt;250 FTEs), this was evident at the bottom as well as the top... where leadership was leadership simply b/c they never left (despite sometimes being inadequate) and top analysts quickly became jaded and lacking in motivation after learning/realizing that they would be promoted with their &quot;class&quot; despite their out-performance.

Even though I garnered tremendous experience in 2 years by working my tail off, the culture cultivated there made it at the expense of my happiness and overall well being.. so anyone in such an environment may well do themselves a favor by extricating themselves!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Overall, I feel strongly that a company (especially a smaller company) employing &#8220;advancement by tenure&#8221; will unavoidably breed an undesirable culture.</p>
<p>At my previous employer (&lt;250 FTEs), this was evident at the bottom as well as the top&#8230; where leadership was leadership simply b/c they never left (despite sometimes being inadequate) and top analysts quickly became jaded and lacking in motivation after learning/realizing that they would be promoted with their &#8220;class&#8221; despite their out-performance.</p>
<p>Even though I garnered tremendous experience in 2 years by working my tail off, the culture cultivated there made it at the expense of my happiness and overall well being.. so anyone in such an environment may well do themselves a favor by extricating themselves!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-234526</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 13:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-234526</guid>
		<description>For me, a newer college grad (3 years ago), this is not a Devil&#039;s Advocate post.  This seems to be inline with exactly what we, Gen Y, are doing.  We are working our asses off for a couple years at one company and jumping back in the job market.  We may change positions within the company, but more often than not, we will change companies.  I did the latter, worked at one job for 2 years, then transfered w/in my company to a new job and location.  This gives us a more diverse skill base, and when we do settle down, it&#039;ll be for the long haul in a job we really enjoy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, a newer college grad (3 years ago), this is not a Devil&#8217;s Advocate post.  This seems to be inline with exactly what we, Gen Y, are doing.  We are working our asses off for a couple years at one company and jumping back in the job market.  We may change positions within the company, but more often than not, we will change companies.  I did the latter, worked at one job for 2 years, then transfered w/in my company to a new job and location.  This gives us a more diverse skill base, and when we do settle down, it&#8217;ll be for the long haul in a job we really enjoy.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron@TheWisdomJournal</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-234343</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron@TheWisdomJournal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 02:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-234343</guid>
		<description>I agree with the premise that unrewarded work should make you look for employment elsewhere, but what I run into on a daily basis are people who&#039;ve been with my company for less than a year and think because they pulled off one good feat, &quot;deserve&quot; a huge raise, a company car, an expense account, and their own store. There is something to be said for &quot;seasoning&quot; a person.

Sometimes it isn&#039;t a matter of tenure, it&#039;s a matter of maturity. Unfortunately they sometimes DO go together and those who have only a little of each get upset.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the premise that unrewarded work should make you look for employment elsewhere, but what I run into on a daily basis are people who&#8217;ve been with my company for less than a year and think because they pulled off one good feat, &#8220;deserve&#8221; a huge raise, a company car, an expense account, and their own store. There is something to be said for &#8220;seasoning&#8221; a person.</p>
<p>Sometimes it isn&#8217;t a matter of tenure, it&#8217;s a matter of maturity. Unfortunately they sometimes DO go together and those who have only a little of each get upset.</p>
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		<title>By: MyMoneyAdventure</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-234190</link>
		<dc:creator>MyMoneyAdventure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-234190</guid>
		<description>I took this advice and found a new job!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I took this advice and found a new job!!</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-234183</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 20:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-234183</guid>
		<description>Yes I did, only because &quot;paying your dues&quot; seems to be a rite of passage in some companies and a young professional, new to the workforce, might think that it&#039;s like that everywhere. I know what you mean though, it&#039;s less &quot;DA&quot; as some other ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I did, only because &#8220;paying your dues&#8221; seems to be a rite of passage in some companies and a young professional, new to the workforce, might think that it&#8217;s like that everywhere. I know what you mean though, it&#8217;s less &#8220;DA&#8221; as some other ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Lazy Man and Money</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-pay-your-dues.html/comment-page-1#comment-234180</link>
		<dc:creator>Lazy Man and Money</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 20:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=2659#comment-234180</guid>
		<description>Are you sure you meant to write this as a Devil&#039;s Advocate post?  It doesn&#039;t have the feel of one from my point of view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you sure you meant to write this as a Devil&#8217;s Advocate post?  It doesn&#8217;t have the feel of one from my point of view.</p>
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