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	<title>Comments on: Four Rules of Thumb In Need of Refreshing</title>
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	<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html</link>
	<description>personal finance blog with anecdotes, advice and commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: DDFD at DivorcedDadFrugalDad</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-326773</link>
		<dc:creator>DDFD at DivorcedDadFrugalDad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 13:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-326773</guid>
		<description>Great post-- one of the best I have seen in weeks.  The diamond engagement ring scam is one I have posted on as well.  Many rules of thumb are made up by scammsters and are self serving . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post&#8211; one of the best I have seen in weeks.  The diamond engagement ring scam is one I have posted on as well.  Many rules of thumb are made up by scammsters and are self serving . . .</p>
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		<title>By: theaccusersgift</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-326480</link>
		<dc:creator>theaccusersgift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-326480</guid>
		<description>During the Great Depression, parents would advice their children never to spend more than 25% of disposable income (net paycheck) on housing (or rent) expenses.

Buying used cars 3 years old has changed to buy used cards 5-7 years old because of the increasing quality of cars.

Only replace a car when either a) the body falls apart b) you have to replace an engine c) you have to replace the (an entire) transmission (as opposed to just the clutch) or d) you total the car.

One needs at least a tri-level emergency fund for 3 different needs:  http://frugaldad.com/2009/07/20/the-tri-level-emergency-fund/

And yes, because you can withdraw contributions from a Roth-IRA at any time without penalty, a Roth-IRA as a &quot;Level III Mega Emergency Fund&quot; makes sense as long as the Roth is not your only retirement fund (e.g. you are also funding your 401(k) to the max at the same time).

Don&#039;t depend on Social Security.  It will only be available as a &quot;safety net&quot;.

Don&#039;t depend on a pension.  The PBIC is dead broke.  If you are lucky you may get 10% of the amount you were promised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During the Great Depression, parents would advice their children never to spend more than 25% of disposable income (net paycheck) on housing (or rent) expenses.</p>
<p>Buying used cars 3 years old has changed to buy used cards 5-7 years old because of the increasing quality of cars.</p>
<p>Only replace a car when either a) the body falls apart b) you have to replace an engine c) you have to replace the (an entire) transmission (as opposed to just the clutch) or d) you total the car.</p>
<p>One needs at least a tri-level emergency fund for 3 different needs:  <a href="http://frugaldad.com/2009/07/20/the-tri-level-emergency-fund/" rel="nofollow">http://frugaldad.com/2009/07/20/the-tri-level-emergency-fund/</a></p>
<p>And yes, because you can withdraw contributions from a Roth-IRA at any time without penalty, a Roth-IRA as a &#8220;Level III Mega Emergency Fund&#8221; makes sense as long as the Roth is not your only retirement fund (e.g. you are also funding your 401(k) to the max at the same time).</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t depend on Social Security.  It will only be available as a &#8220;safety net&#8221;.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t depend on a pension.  The PBIC is dead broke.  If you are lucky you may get 10% of the amount you were promised.</p>
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		<title>By: Damon Day</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-325385</link>
		<dc:creator>Damon Day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-325385</guid>
		<description>How about, do not take on consumer debt just to purchase something that you do not want to wait a few months to save up for.  Don&#039;t spend more on your credit card than you can afford to pay in full when the bill arrives.  There is no good reason to buy a pair of shoes or a purse or any consumer item that is not a necessity if you cannot pay the bill in full.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about, do not take on consumer debt just to purchase something that you do not want to wait a few months to save up for.  Don&#8217;t spend more on your credit card than you can afford to pay in full when the bill arrives.  There is no good reason to buy a pair of shoes or a purse or any consumer item that is not a necessity if you cannot pay the bill in full.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-325285</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-325285</guid>
		<description>I usually recommend people max out their companies match in their 401k while focusing on other retirement accounts and their emergency fund.  Do a little into each to make sure they all grow.

Missing a couple months in a retirement account can be a several thousand/hundred thousand dollar mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I usually recommend people max out their companies match in their 401k while focusing on other retirement accounts and their emergency fund.  Do a little into each to make sure they all grow.</p>
<p>Missing a couple months in a retirement account can be a several thousand/hundred thousand dollar mistake.</p>
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		<title>By: dilbert69</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-325207</link>
		<dc:creator>dilbert69</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-325207</guid>
		<description>I had a feeling, after I posted, I might have missed the point. I agree that a retirement fund is not a substitute for an emergency fund. I think one should fund one&#039;s retirement fund just enough to get the maximum employer match, then establish an emergency fund of six months&#039; expenses, then max out the retirement fund to get the maximum tax benefit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a feeling, after I posted, I might have missed the point. I agree that a retirement fund is not a substitute for an emergency fund. I think one should fund one&#8217;s retirement fund just enough to get the maximum employer match, then establish an emergency fund of six months&#8217; expenses, then max out the retirement fund to get the maximum tax benefit.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-325193</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-325193</guid>
		<description>Andrew, you missed his question.  He was asking about putting his money into a retirement account for emergency fund purposes instead of a legitimate emergency fund.

None of us have ever suggested one starve before tapping ones retirement account for money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, you missed his question.  He was asking about putting his money into a retirement account for emergency fund purposes instead of a legitimate emergency fund.</p>
<p>None of us have ever suggested one starve before tapping ones retirement account for money.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-325038</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-325038</guid>
		<description>If you have a prolonged period with no income and you exhaust your non-retirement savings, you may be left with a choice between exhausting your retirement savings (and paying any back taxes and penalties) or being homeless and starving to death. Kind of makes retirement seem a lot less relevant, huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have a prolonged period with no income and you exhaust your non-retirement savings, you may be left with a choice between exhausting your retirement savings (and paying any back taxes and penalties) or being homeless and starving to death. Kind of makes retirement seem a lot less relevant, huh?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-325031</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 04:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-325031</guid>
		<description>I agree with Richard, your Roth IRA should be for retirement. Money that goes in shouldn&#039;t come out until you retire... or you&#039;ll regret it when you do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Richard, your Roth IRA should be for retirement. Money that goes in shouldn&#8217;t come out until you retire&#8230; or you&#8217;ll regret it when you do.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-325012</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-325012</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t.  A Roth is a retirement account not an emergency fund.  You will get penalties if you withdraw before your retirement age.

I would actually suggest you get between 6 and 12 months emergency fund into either a savings account or a money market mutual fund account.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t.  A Roth is a retirement account not an emergency fund.  You will get penalties if you withdraw before your retirement age.</p>
<p>I would actually suggest you get between 6 and 12 months emergency fund into either a savings account or a money market mutual fund account.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim @ The Cost of Living</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-325007</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim @ The Cost of Living</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-325007</guid>
		<description>This past year I&#039;ve been forced to reevaluate many of the rules of thumb I&#039;d previously been able to rely upon. I suspect many people have started to increase the size of their emergency funds; I was always comfortable using 3-months of expenses as my rule, but lately I&#039;ve been trying to increase to 6-months. Any thoughts on using a Roth IRA as an emergency fund, as contributions can be withdrawn tax/penalty-free?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This past year I&#8217;ve been forced to reevaluate many of the rules of thumb I&#8217;d previously been able to rely upon. I suspect many people have started to increase the size of their emergency funds; I was always comfortable using 3-months of expenses as my rule, but lately I&#8217;ve been trying to increase to 6-months. Any thoughts on using a Roth IRA as an emergency fund, as contributions can be withdrawn tax/penalty-free?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-324833</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-324833</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t listen to those people. Again, don&#039;t watch news or read newspapers.

Annuities are tools.  When used properly, they are great.  They got their bad rap from agents who used them improperly.

I have a client that is about to retire, they have annuities from another company.  If they were to move them over, they would lose between 10 and 20% of their retirement.  They retire next year.  Those annuities also have a cap on what they can earn.  The underlying investments have been doing 10/15% growth the last few months.  They only got 2% and lost the rest.  Not from fees, but because of the guaranties.

As for the fees, having little to no fees can be more detrimental than having moderate fees.  Just as having too many fees will kill the return.  There has to be a balance.  WIthout that balance, it&#039;s a bad product.  With it, they are great products for specific tasks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t listen to those people. Again, don&#8217;t watch news or read newspapers.</p>
<p>Annuities are tools.  When used properly, they are great.  They got their bad rap from agents who used them improperly.</p>
<p>I have a client that is about to retire, they have annuities from another company.  If they were to move them over, they would lose between 10 and 20% of their retirement.  They retire next year.  Those annuities also have a cap on what they can earn.  The underlying investments have been doing 10/15% growth the last few months.  They only got 2% and lost the rest.  Not from fees, but because of the guaranties.</p>
<p>As for the fees, having little to no fees can be more detrimental than having moderate fees.  Just as having too many fees will kill the return.  There has to be a balance.  WIthout that balance, it&#8217;s a bad product.  With it, they are great products for specific tasks.</p>
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		<title>By: My Journey</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-324826</link>
		<dc:creator>My Journey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-324826</guid>
		<description>Pre-2007, how many times have you read that Annuities are the worst financial products? Now, despite those &quot;crazy fees&quot;, pundits (the SAME pundits that hated them a decade ago) are claiming they are amazing because of the guaranties.  

To each their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pre-2007, how many times have you read that Annuities are the worst financial products? Now, despite those &#8220;crazy fees&#8221;, pundits (the SAME pundits that hated them a decade ago) are claiming they are amazing because of the guaranties.  </p>
<p>To each their own.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-324822</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-324822</guid>
		<description>Sadly, I&#039;ve seen some commissions that high. Not all were on whole life specifically, but all were on cash value products.  Just because your office doesn&#039;t get them that high, does not mean they are not there.

If those multi-millionaire clients knew of other options that are available, they probably wouldn&#039;t put money into a WL type policy.  The ones I deal with, get those options.  When they deal with other advisors that mention cash value policies, they kick them out and move on.

On that post, 1 of those situations is better covered using lower cost key-man term insurance.  The other 5 can be take care of using trusts and annuities.  Both allow the protection they seek as well as greater growth potential with lower fees.

Whole Life is a sham and was created to increase profits.  When those profits started dropping, the insurance companies started creating other cash value policies (UL, VUL, VL) to fit different times of the market so they can keep profits higher.  UL was actually created as the answer to BTID.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, I&#8217;ve seen some commissions that high. Not all were on whole life specifically, but all were on cash value products.  Just because your office doesn&#8217;t get them that high, does not mean they are not there.</p>
<p>If those multi-millionaire clients knew of other options that are available, they probably wouldn&#8217;t put money into a WL type policy.  The ones I deal with, get those options.  When they deal with other advisors that mention cash value policies, they kick them out and move on.</p>
<p>On that post, 1 of those situations is better covered using lower cost key-man term insurance.  The other 5 can be take care of using trusts and annuities.  Both allow the protection they seek as well as greater growth potential with lower fees.</p>
<p>Whole Life is a sham and was created to increase profits.  When those profits started dropping, the insurance companies started creating other cash value policies (UL, VUL, VL) to fit different times of the market so they can keep profits higher.  UL was actually created as the answer to BTID.</p>
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		<title>By: My Journey</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-324806</link>
		<dc:creator>My Journey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-324806</guid>
		<description>I have never sold a policy, but work in an office where policies are sold. 

Not one agent gets paid 200% not one, not even the top agent in the office (who is the in the top 5 of the Fortune 100 Company I work for).  Most get 45 to 50% of First Year Premiums, but fade down QUICKLY.  The Payout % is very similar to term, but as you have mentioned term costs less so the net payout is less.

I have been involved with the implementation of whole life (as my role in the office, but not as salesmen) for many many multimillionaires who wanted whole life for various reasons (not everything is about income replacement) here is a guest post:  

http://cashmoneylife.com/2009/05/15/reasons-to-buy-whole-life-insurance/  

We can go back and forth, and I am alright with that because you are obviously intelligent...but in the end If the product sucked that much and didn&#039;t help at all it wouldn&#039;t exist.  LI Salesman, Financial Planners aren&#039;t playing Jedi Mind tricks (a lot of them are quite the opposite as I am sure you&#039;ll agree) some people are into it, some people aren&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have never sold a policy, but work in an office where policies are sold. </p>
<p>Not one agent gets paid 200% not one, not even the top agent in the office (who is the in the top 5 of the Fortune 100 Company I work for).  Most get 45 to 50% of First Year Premiums, but fade down QUICKLY.  The Payout % is very similar to term, but as you have mentioned term costs less so the net payout is less.</p>
<p>I have been involved with the implementation of whole life (as my role in the office, but not as salesmen) for many many multimillionaires who wanted whole life for various reasons (not everything is about income replacement) here is a guest post:  </p>
<p><a href="http://cashmoneylife.com/2009/05/15/reasons-to-buy-whole-life-insurance/" rel="nofollow">http://cashmoneylife.com/2009/05/15/reasons-to-buy-whole-life-insurance/</a>  </p>
<p>We can go back and forth, and I am alright with that because you are obviously intelligent&#8230;but in the end If the product sucked that much and didn&#8217;t help at all it wouldn&#8217;t exist.  LI Salesman, Financial Planners aren&#8217;t playing Jedi Mind tricks (a lot of them are quite the opposite as I am sure you&#8217;ll agree) some people are into it, some people aren&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/four-rules-of-thumb-in-need-of-refreshing.html/comment-page-1#comment-324787</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4970#comment-324787</guid>
		<description>My Journey,

The problem with whole life, when you pass on, all that cash you built up, you lose if you don&#039;t get to it before you pass on.  Then, unless you put it into a qualified account or the growth is below your tax basis, your heirs might have to pay income and estate taxes on it.

Whole life is only a great deal for the agent due to the average of 80 to 200% commissions on it.  Why else would you have a -100% growth on your money the first few years.

And frankly, I don&#039;t watch TV except for Nick &amp; Disney with my kid and NCIS, SyFy, and Food Network.  No news stations.

However, the millionaires&#039; I do socialize with, NONE of them touch cash value policies of any kind.  They are just bad all around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Journey,</p>
<p>The problem with whole life, when you pass on, all that cash you built up, you lose if you don&#8217;t get to it before you pass on.  Then, unless you put it into a qualified account or the growth is below your tax basis, your heirs might have to pay income and estate taxes on it.</p>
<p>Whole life is only a great deal for the agent due to the average of 80 to 200% commissions on it.  Why else would you have a -100% growth on your money the first few years.</p>
<p>And frankly, I don&#8217;t watch TV except for Nick &amp; Disney with my kid and NCIS, SyFy, and Food Network.  No news stations.</p>
<p>However, the millionaires&#8217; I do socialize with, NONE of them touch cash value policies of any kind.  They are just bad all around.</p>
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