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Nitrogen-Filled Tires & Better Gas Mileage?
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When I bought my tires from Costco, I noticed the caps for the valve stems were a flourescent green and asked about them – it means the tires are filled with Nitrogen. After reading a friend’s blog claiming that nitrogen-filled tires get 0.5 mi/gal better gas mileage and have a longer tire lifespan, I wanted to find some “proof” to these claims. The belief, also pushed by Costco in their tire brochures, is that the larger nitrogen molecules don’t react to temperature changes (better tread life and mileage) and lack moisture (won’t corrode the tire from the inside). It doesn’t affect my decision if these claims can’t be proven because there is a miniscule increased cost for using nitrogen (I can only “fill” my tires at a Costco, most gas stations only have air, but the service is free).
The theory is that the oxygen in the air inside the tire, when heated as a result of driving, can oxidize and rot the inside of the tire over time. A nitrogen filled tire won’t oxidize for obvious reasons, no oxygen. This is all anecdotal though and for most people, I think the tread of the tire wears out before the tire does from internal rot.
As for the nitrogen not reacting to temperature as much as compressed air, it’s probably a bit of snake oil magic going on there. At such low pressures, the nitrogen behaves like an ideal gas (just as oxygen and water vapor) so that means pure nitrogen will act just like regular air. A 0.5 mi/gal improvement in gas mileage is 1.6% improvement (on my car, which gets a little more than 30 mpg) which seems way too much.
It sounds like the “nitrogen is better than air” theory is not entirely true but since it costs me very little (if at all really) I won’t be complaining much about it. As long as you don’t pay for nitrogen, fill it with nitrogen; but if it costs you money, ask for regular air.
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Nitrogen’s coefficient of expansion is .8, as compared to air’s 1.0. So there’s only a 20% difference in the reaction to temperature changes.
When we put new tires on my wife’s car, they were filled with Nitrogen, but I won’t pay for top-offs. Realistically, there’s no significant benefit for 99.9% of cars on the road. You aren’t getting 100% pure Nitrogen in those tires anyway, as the tire can’t be fully evacuated before filling. As you noted, the tires will wear out before they “rot” due to Oxygen exposure.
You’re only protecting the tire from the inside. On the outside, you can’t stop the air from making contact with the tire.
Don’t forget that air is 78% Nitrogen to start with.
weird. never heard of this before!
but it does sound more cliche than actually practicaly or funcational.
Race cars often use nitrogen in their tires. As a tire heats up and cools down, tire pressures change rather dramatically. (Fill a cold tire with air to 32 PSI, run it about 50 miles on an 80 degree day, then chek it again. It will go up substantially!)
The thought is probably that your gas savings will come from steadier tire pressures. Much less fluctuation in pressure due to temperature.
Most people fill their tires hot at a gas station. I have seen as much as an 8psi drop when the tires are cold.
Let’s say (to make the math easier) that your tire pressure goes up by 10 PSI after this test, running regular air.
With Nitrogen, it’ll go up by more than 8 PSI. As I noted above, the coefficient of expansion of Nitrogen is .8 as compared to air’s 1.0, and your tires won’t be filled with pure Nitrogen. At best, you’ll get a 2 PSI difference. In reality, it’ll be less than that.
If you’re paying for Nitrogen-filled tires on your daily driver, it’s not worth it.
Actually the molecules of just plain nitrogen are 3 times the size of normal air. Most companies filter the air a total 6 times taking out all moisture and leaving you with 99-99.9% nitrogen. due to the increased size of the molecules less gas is able to leak from the tires. typically when your tires are filled with nitrogen, the air in your tires are completely pressed out due to the weight of the vehicle and then filled with nitrogen. This gives you a mixture of air and nitrogen. For the effects of nitrogen to be more effective it needs to be at least 95% pure in the tire. To make it this pure the tires are then deflated once again to rid of the extra air and nitrogen. After this step is complete they are again filled to your desired psi. My tires are 97.8% nitrogen after the second fill.
“due to the increased size of the molecules less gas is able to leak from the tires”
Yes, this is actually the main reason you will get better mileage. Most people hardly ever check their air pressure, which means their tires are usually underinflated. Underinflated tires yeild worse fuel economy, worse handling, and reduced tread life.
If the tires leak less gas, they stay properly inflated longer, which means you don’t suffer from the ill effects of underinflation. This is not exactly an “increase” as the marketing speak claims, but it is “better” nonetheless.
The fact that normal air expands more temperature is actually helping those people with underinflated tires. But this is not near as significant as the leakage issue.
And yes, the oxidation/rotting claim is negligible as well…even the best tires don’t last THAT long.
BTW: Race car drivers always need to get the most PERFORMANCE out of their tires (they could care less about fuel economy & tread life). To do this, they need to have a precise amount of air pressure in the tires to maximize the contact patch during corners. The less this varies due to temperature, the better off they are. But again, this is about performance at the limits of traction, so to make any claim that this applies to the general public is just more marketing hoopla.
Let’s face it; the real problem with plain air is how much moisture it contains. Most service stations do very little (if anything) to condition the compressed air. The water contained in the air can change the tire pressure considerably with temperature. In rare cases, cold weather can throw a tire out of balance because the moisture in the tire has condensed into water droplets. Companies like Ingersoll-Rand capitalize on this by using worst case scenarios as examples in order to sell their Nitrogen Generators.
I also hear that a lot of dealerships are leading there costumers to believe that they will void their warranty if the owner doesn’t keep the tires filled with Nitrogen. If true, this is very scary, because this would mean that it is just a matter of time before all tires will need to be fill with Nitrogen (Maybe some energy saving law that takes another dollar or ten from the American consumer just to save pennies in fuel). Then we will all be remembering when air used to be free.
I hate to be this guy, but the data presented on the coefficient of expansion is incorrect. N2 and air being gases, in the conditions we’re concerned with, will both act ideally (pv=nrt) and so will expand and contract to exactly the same volume at the same temperature. Even using Van Der Waal’s equation to correct for the ever-so-slight deviations from idealness you’d encounter at high tire temp, the difference is so small you probably couldn’t measure it.
Now you may get a difference based on the fact that nitrogen has a slightly higher heat capacity than oxygen (it will reach a slightly lower temperature than oxygen if exposed to the same amount of heat), but the difference is very small, about 3 per cent, and since air is ~78% n2 to begin with, the final difference will be vanishingly small.
Also, someone mentioned that n2 is three times larger than normal air, well, since normal air is, again, 78% n2, that doesnt’ really make sense. It is larger than o2 (which takes up the remaining 22% minus some change), but again, only by a few per cent.
Nitrogen is Illegal in some states. Nitrogen, in a tire, if you run over a nail, will explode and cause some sort of a nitrous oxide. Nitrogen also has Isotopes that can make that explosion stronger. So I wouldn’t put it in my tires. Also if this gas is mixed with Carbon or Oxygen it will be a sad story for that person if the tire bursts.
from what i have read here and learned is basic chemistry, i’m pretty sure that “if you run over a nail, the tire will explode and cause some sort of a nitrous oxide” comment is a far cry from possible. nitrogen is inert, meaning it will not react. how would a nail cause an explosion anyway? ha ha i like the part about mixed with carbon or oxygen being a sad story. news flash jack, that mixture your talking about…. it’s called air.
Nitrogen air in tires.
I not so worried about the tire rottening from the inside as I am the damage moisture cause to the interior of some rims.
For those metal rims many shops utilize the old standard compressor that has inadequate compressed air filtration to control moisture. Without proper moisture control for compressed air you are in fact pumping moisture into your tires and therefore rusting of the rim begins to occur internally which cannot be seen by the vehicle owner.
This issue is serious in older vehicles and can compromise the safety of that vehicle becasue the consumer is unable to see the deteriation of this vehicles rim.
Just my thoughts!
jim:
You are quite right but it gets worse. Many rims are now alloys of aluminum or magnesium or both. These, like iron rims, “rust”, i.e., form an oxide (it’s white, not brown) but they are more water soluble than iron oxide. This means that alloy rims “rust” away quicker than iron rims and this in turn breaks the seal, air leaks out, the pressure decreases and chances of a blowout increases. Thankfully, tire pressure on many cars is now monitored and the driver is warned when tire pressure is lost. That’s fine but I can tell you from hard experience that it’s a pain, particularly in winter, having first to check which tire is low then top it up. That’s why the new car I’ll pick up today will run on nitrogen filled tires. Jack
is this true about explosion potential? Normal ait is nearly 80% nitrogen, how does 100% make it that much more dangerous?
Well it sure seemed like a good idea (to get my tires nitogen filled)
until I met this guy at the Wal Mart Auto Centre. Seems he had his completely filled and maybe he had been overfilled…after leaving the tire shop he pulled out of the driveway and drove over the curb.
All four tires blew up and sent him into the airbag.
The tire store guys said they never heard anything like this and it was probably just a coincidence. They did give him a huge discount on a new set of Michelins…and filled them with regular air, just to be sure. I’ll just stick with regular, please!
If you beleive someone’s tires blew up because they were filled with an INERT gas, you are an idiot. Also, if you waste money to fill your tires with Nitrogen expecting better fuel economy, you are at best uneducated on the subject. Snake oil sales are still alive and well in the U.S. But when so many of us believe Global warming is fake and Saddam attacked the WTC, what can you expect?
haha,Thank you Darwin, I agree that most people believe everything they hear. But i filled up my tires with nitrogen and the one benefit that I do get out of it is a smoother ride. I cant say that my mileage is a lot better, and as for tire life, who pays attention to that anyway ??…But i guess if you want a smoother ride, Nitrogen Helps. Only if you have the extra 6 dollars per tire.
Our local Dodge dealer convinced us to replace the tire air with nitrogen. 72 hours later, just south of Billings Mt, we had a blowout. The Billings Dodge dealer knew nothing about N and refused to touch the tires. The Dodge dealer in Oak Harbor Wa also refused to touch them. Two other independent mechanics refused to touch them – all to remove the N of course. Our local Tx dealer considers all those people to be “ignorant” since they disagree with him, and, refuses to consider any compensation beyond the insurance committment of $2300.00 worth of damage. Needles to say we forced them to remove the N, and informed them that we will not replace our leased vehicle from their showroom. ps–a friend of our son had a similar “accident” just last week in the state of Wa – nitrogen had been recently put into the tire.
Errm, Darwin, since when was Nitrogen an inert gas?
Nitrogen is an inert gas. Quite so.
I am just looking into the nitrogen fill debate, and I cannot believe some of the stuff I read. I’ll get it for free and try it out. From the real studies that I read it seems to make a difference. I do not know so it it matters for a personal vehicle.
Lets talk in a year.
Good postings. I was going to pay for Nitrogen (19.00 US) in my classic Lincoln Cosmopolitan 1950 but now I will not. Thanks all of you for setting me straight!
I have not been in the automobile service industry for more than 40 years but, even way back then the shop air compressors had “dryers” on their output lines. These dryers removed water from the compressed air. The dryers were serviced often because the life of the air tools that the mechanics used would suffer if they ingested water along with the compressed air. By the way, the compressed air was also used to fill tires …… with “dry air.”
In the following website from NASA there is a device presented where a consumer can fill his tires with almost 100% nitrogen himself.
http://www.createthefuturecontest.com/pages/view/entriesdetail.html?entryID=383
This is well and good but, I have a simple question: If the oxygen molecules permeate the tire readily and the 78% nitrogen doesn’t, wouldn’t it seem that over time the percentage of nitrogen in the tire would increase on its own? With every cycle of additional air (remember, 78% nitrogen) and loss, the loss rate should decrease because of the bulk reduction of oxygen. With a number of pressure adjustments, the air in the tires should reach close to 100% nitrogen naturally. Furthermore, some of the oxygen in the tire and moisture binds-up with the tire material. This makes the tire itself a nitrogen producing machine. Maybe we should recycle the air from old tires. The tire dealer near my home offers free dry compressed air. I think that I’ll let my tires do what they do naturally.
What say you?
All I can say is I put it in my car and my tire pressure did not change at all for 6 months. Before that I had to add 1 to 3 pis every month. My daughter ruined 2 tires running them low and not checking them. So I put it in hers too. Now I have it in my wife’s car. If the tires have the correct pressure they should be getting me the best gas mileage and should last longer and I know they will be safer. 3 cars under $100.00 for to keep my family safe. No brainier. That’s 1 or 2 dinners out. Dave
all this stuff bout fizzix n stuff an ideal gass. ya just cant believe these fizzix pieple telln usns that this hear Nitrogen dont werk. I knowed it did. Why right after we pumped em up with this hear stuff, my car stopped runnin out of gas. I knowed it. I writ in my book the day befor when I runed out of gas, then pumped it in the next day just to be sure. we let it out and pumped it in 26 times. Im figgerin that gits me around 87.8739% Nitrogen. Of course there were these big esplosions when we let it out, but wez told itsn ok that hiss sound esplosion won’t keal usns cousins wes standin strait up. And anther thin when I land in this hear vehicular contraption I waz plannin not to blow up. The other day Iz goin 29 no, no, no it was 49.2 and hit a hoal in the lane and when that there tire hit the road it did not explood. Im not fibbin. No sir eee bob.
When figgerin 26 * $5 * 4 per fill wuz only an addi .. mor… an exte $723. It wuz a gud dil cuz they have it on the speac chuttle. An he put the xta pur 88% nitrogen in em. So my vehicular motivator wuz $1400 an it cust only 723 to save it from xplodin so I got my vehicular motivator at %50 off.
I may do it again nxt weak to save even more!
I think this is the dumdest one i’ve read yet, please don’t write anything else on this because you can not spell or write anything that makes a damn bit of sense.
The chevy dealership that I work out of (rent cars) charges $55 for 4 tires and gives a 1 year guarentee. From all I’ve read I would think that if you look after your vehicle and are checking fluids and tire pressures like any good driver should, you dont need the extra expense. But Dave made a great point as I have a family member that doesnt, and I will on her car now. If you do have a tire leak or for whatever problem have to run 3 with nitrogen and 1 without, I assume thats not a problem. Seems like a dumb question, but it was put too me by someone getting the work done today, as they didnt do it to her spare.
Recently had new tires put on my wife’s car and opted for nitrogen filled. The dealership uses a setup made by NitroFill. Don’t know that I’ve noticed a difference in fuel economy/handling/traction, but the small added cost also covers 1 year free roadside assistance and road hazard, as well as lodging, rental, and meal expenses incurred as a result of tire damage. The extras are what sold me on the idea, as well as her unfamiliarity with vehicle maintenance.
how much N would a 17 in. tire hold, I can buy a 84 cuft cyl for $12.
Nitrogen does not explode under “normal” atmospheric conditions. In fact it is used by NASA to PREVENT fires on or near the space shuttle launch pad. It is also used by deep diving SCUBA divers in place of oxygen. Nitrogen is safe to use in tires…though from what I have read the benifits are miniscule if any exist at all. But please, Nitrogen will not explode and is actually non-flamable. Do some simple research, there is a lot to be learned on the web.
blA BLA BLA WHATEVER IM GLAD I LOOKED THIS UP BECAUSEIT ISREALLY POINTLESS NITROGEN IN TIRES IS FOR THE BIRDS NOW
I just put nitrogen in my truck tires. My fuel mileage increased to 47mpg, the ride is MUCH smoother, and when I sucked some of the nitrogen out of my valve stem I got a great head rush and talked in a really squeaky voice! It was so funny, that all the guys on my jobsite joined in. Now we’re all lying on the ground, stoned out of our minds, talking like chipmunks.
One word of caution, don’t light a fart after breathing nitrogen! In fact, it’s better to fart in a jar and save it. If you do that, you can install an injection system into your engine’s intake system and you will gain even more MPG and at least 300 HP.
Nitrogen also cures cancer.
Just a couple of things:
Nitrogen gas is inert… it doesn’t react with anything. Period. It must be dissociated into two single nitrogen molecules to react and that needs external energy… like ionizing radiation. Nitrogen compounds can be explosive… but NOT N2 gas. Any gas under pressure can produce an explosion… fill a balloon with air, or nitrogen… it still pops when you poke it with a pin. That is a pressure change though, not a chemical reaction.
Oxygen in SCUBA is not replaced by nitrogen, rather more oxygen is added so there is less nitrogen. This is reduces surface intervals and reduces the risk of the bends and nitrogen narcosis. Nitrogen is replaced by helium to avoid nitrogen narcosis too.
IMHO, if you watch your tire pressure, it doesn’t matter if it is filled with N2 or air.
I’m a chemist (Ph.D.) and I feel I am more qualified to provide an educated opinion on the N2 vs air debate. First of all, N2 will not ‘explode’ any differently than air if you run over a tire (there is no ‘isotope’ issue mentioned above), it will expand and contract nearly the exact same as dry air (differences would be difficult to measure without laboratory-grade tools), N2 is actually smaller than O2 (and in theory will diffuse out of the inflated tire more efficiently – but again, the difference in diffusion is not measurable outside of a controlled laboratory environment), the skeptics above who mention the ‘ideal gas law’ are correct (although at the high pressures of the tire there are differences – and the differences for N2 and air are, again, similar). Perhaps the tire MAY oxidize (rot) with air instead of N2, but I would bet my reputation and life that the treadwear will make it unsafe before rot on the inside does. Perhaps the only valid argument for N2 instead of air is the greater assurance that the N2 is dry (free of water) compared to compressed air. Again though, treadlife is the limiting factor of tire life, not any sort of chemistry going on inside the tire. I bought my last set of tires at costco (and I will likely buy my next set there too) and they are filled with N2, but I periodically refill my tires with normal compressed air without hesitation. I think the N2 is mostly marketing. The best way to maintain the life and safety of tires is too regularly rotate them, keep them at an appropriate pressure, keep your car aligned, and drive safely. Cheers and beware of non-scientist spewing technical info (which reminds me of rush (no capital R deserved) speaking about anything technical. . .)
Ok, Let’s put this to rest once and for all. Tires do not rot from the inside out. I worked in the auto service industry for many years before returning to school to become a mechanical engineer and never in all the tires I changed (probably in the thousands) have I ever seen “dryrot” on the inside of the tire. It occurs on the outside only due to rubber drying out in the environment. The inside is sealed with the majority of air remaining the same throughout its’ life so when we were removing old tires to be discarded the inside always looked like new even though the out side was riddled with cracks. There can be deterioration of the surface of the rim but in only some cases does that cause the bead of the rim to corrode and cause leaks because the surface is no longer smooth (mostly in older cars and in New York state we have high amounts of salt from the roads).
I drive a 2007 Chrysler 300c that has the Tire Pressure Monitors on it. My TPMS lights were coming on every couple of months showing low pressure in one or more of the tires. My Chrysler dealer suggested using Nitrogen. I have been driving almost 5 months since converting to Nitrogen and no more lights on my dash. For me, it works.
I am one of those people who let their dealership convince her that nitrogen filled tires was a good thing. I have to say they were right. I am getting approximately 1.2 additional miles per gallon and the ride is smoother. I have a 2007 Maxima which always, from day one, rode a little rough on the interstate but now it is a smoother ride. I have no complaints.
Instead of filling tires with nitrogen to reduce the required frequency of checking the pressure, it makes more sense to keep an air compressor in the garage to make it more convenient to keep the tires properly inflated. That also makes it possible to check the tires while they are cold.
I doubt that moisture in the air is much of a problem. But even if it were, it would cost less for service stations to remove the moisture from compressed air than to use nitrogen.
Some of the posters here obviously have not taken physics 101. In my opinion, physics should be required in high school. For those who have not studied physics, I recommend buying a good physics text book and reading it.
Nitrogen vs. air in tires? Just a personal choice. Throw out all the science and technical worries and use plain common sense in the upkeep of your tires. R.I.M. Rotate, inflate, maintain for safe journeys.
I work for one for the Big 3, on suspension and tires for 30+ years. Nitrogen makes up 78% of the air, and is about 18% bigger molecule vs. oxygen, which is most of the rest of air. By the way nitrogen is NOT inert. That’s why nitrous oxides are a pollutant, but that’s another story. Also, pure Nitrogen will not blow up in combustion.
The bull about less leaks is this – a larger molecule will indeed slow leaks directly through the tire rubber itself – but – that’s not the kind of slow leaks we all have – we have valve stem leaks and rim leaks that are much larger than molecule size – and air vs. nitrogen makes not one bit of difference. Second – lack of oxidation inside the tire is a good thing – but – when was the last time your tire oxidized off your wheel from the inside out? Next, moisture and expansion – at the pressures and speeds we run car and light truck tires – no difference – race cars and aircraft – yes. Last – good ride – it’s all in your head – you paid for it, so you think you feel it. Like the guy in the post above says – air or nitrogen are so close to working like an ideal gas at this point. If you are feeling something good, you bought a good set of new tires – buy the same kind again next time, and ask for a discount when they fill then with air!
Check you tires often, and when the seasons (temperature) change (this would be true for air or nitrogen). Use the sticker that the manufacturer puts on the drivers door. Check your tires cold. This is all you need to do.
Nitrogen is BUNK
I have worn out two sets of tires purchased from Costco and filled with N2. I am a stickler for keeping tire pressure correct and check them monthly. in the 160,000 miles I got out of the N2 filled tires Costco added one pound of N2 in one tire one time. That never happened with air in tires I’ve had. I rember my high school physics and am not worried at all about N2 exploding. The N2 filled tires seem to run cooler also. On long trips where there were two or more vehicles traveling together, same speed etc, when we stop for fuel an feel the tires the N2 filled tires feel cooler. Whis I had had my infared themometer with me to measure the actual temparature. What it comes down to is if you believe in it use it if you don’t believe don’t use it, it’s still a free country. Well, mostly free.
I have nitrogen filled tires as well, and have yet to have a change in air pressure in 9,000 miles. I’m not sure why nitrogen is better, but I do know that the Military uses it to fill all aviation tires. It is my understanding that it is a requirement in all commercial aviation as well. They would definately not use something that tends to explode on aircraft, and there must have been some noticable substantial difference for themn to use it in the first place.
I had my tires filled with nitrogen at the recommendation of Big O Tires about a month ago. However, when I was driving on the freeway my whole tire blew out, the side facing out blew the rubber off in a circular motion about 5 inches around the tire. I asked Big O if it could have anything to do with the nortigen and they said no that I probably ran over a nail. Well, I have ran over plenty of nails and never had my tire blow like that!!! I get leaks but never the rubber ripping apart??? I am considering removing the nitrogen?
Nitrogen has nothing to do with tires ripping apart. It is likely you ran something over causing the tire to react the way it did. As mentioned in all these posts, regular air has 78% nitorgen. Wouldn’t there be more tire blow outs because of every single tire on the road having at least 78% nitorgen in it? People are ridiculous. Blow outs happen. Not because of what your tire is filled with, but likely because of underinflation or the result of running something over. Underinflation is the number one cause of premature tire wear, and is a huge part of tire blowouts. This is why all vehicles now produced come with the TPMS sensors to monior your tires’ pressure. Nitrogen has larger molecules than regular air and therefore won’t escape out of your tires as quickly as air would. This results in better fuel efficiency.
Reagrdless, everyone should check the air pressure in their tires at least once a month to avoid the potentially disasterous results that could come from underinflated tires.
I have to say that I just had new tires put on my 1992 190-E and they are nitrogen filled with the green stems. Every month I have to drive to reserve duty drill about 130 miles one way and am a stickler for correct tire pressure before I get on the road.
The “ride” recommend from MB is 29 backs, 34 fronts however I have found with regular air that 35 around gets better mileage (although not as smooth a ride).
This last month had the oil changed and they told me they did not check my TP due to green stem caps (Jiffy apparently does not have nitrogen LOL).
Usually one way on this trip uses about 1/3 tank of gas (sometimes almost 1/2), or 3.33 gallons. This time the car used only 1/4 tank (barely) or 2.5 gallons. Same on the way back. Normally I am below 1/4 tank at 210 miles, today I sit over 1/2 tank at 210 miles.
Given that no other service was performed on the Mercedes except an oil change (no air filter change before you ask and I do it every 3000), I am seeing a pretty substantial increase in MPG from this old V6 engine with these tires.
I plan to track this over an extended period of time just to get an idea of it but I am serious that my gas mileage has improved quite a bit.
Being a commuter, 200+ miles/week, anything that could possibly save on gas mileage is worth checking out. I did my research and found that people were seeing anywhere from 5 to 10 mph increase! So, I had all of my tires filled with nitrogen ($20 for all four). A small investment for possible savings down the road. Imagine my surprise when I began to get 3 mpg less than normal! After speaking with a very dismayed salesman, the pressure in my tires was readjusted – only to produce 2 mpg less than normal. I am now having air put back in my tires for free!!!
Y’all people who think that having “nitrogen filled” tires vs having “air filled’ tires has a perceptible impact on ride comfort or fuel economy are friggin idiots. Maybe when the tires are filled with nitrogen the tire pressure was changed such that the ride or fuel economy was affected, but the same effect would have occurred with an “air fill” of the tire to the same pressure. It appears from this thread that the U.S. is indeed full of retards.
I’ve read all of the posts and I too remember high school chemistry class. The people saying that Nitrogen filled tires are more susceptible to exploding is complete crap, read the periodic table again and buy the “Chemistry for Dummies” book at any barns and noble and you’ll see what I mean. I just had a local shop replace the old air with nitrogen for only $5 a pop, for those of you paying $10 or more you guys are getting really ripped off and should tell that shop to go to hell.
I dont know anything about advanced chemistry but I did notice that when my tires were properly inflated with regular air on a hot day the ride would be more rough. Today after my tires were inflated with nitrogen it was 96 degrees and extremely humid and the ride quality did not change. Thats the first hand experience I have with nitrogen for those interested.
Hmm… forget everything else… if a race car driver cares less about economy and any other expressed benefit and is only interested in the benefit of control and handling of the car from the constant tire pressure… then just what is your life worth on the highway DRCheap?
From the mouths of babes.
Everyone stop arguing and read gcturp’s comment.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/automobiles/09MOTO.html
I fill my tires with green slime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Put it in my cars 3 for $39.95 each. Free life time top offs. I have checked them every 2 weeks at first now once a month. Zero pressure loss in 6 months. I feel money well spent knowing my wife and kids have the correct pressure all the time. DP
it seems to me that if the oxygen leaks theorists are correct, then the O2 will leak out leaving N2 behind.
Then you top up with air and now your tire is 78% nitrogen + 78% of the 22 % fill = 95%. After the second topping you’re up to 98% or so, and after that effectively 100% nitrogen. So if you believe the O2 leaks out theory, you’re already running nearly pure nitrogen in your tires.
TIRE PRESSURE MONITORING SYSTEMS ARE GOVERNMENT MANDATED ON EVERY NEW VEHICLE PRODUCED FOR THE 2008 AND SUBSEQUENT MODEL YEARS. REMEMBER ALL OF THESE COMMENTS POSTED WHEN YOU PURCHASE A NEW VEHICLE AND THE LOW TIRE PRESSURE LIGHT ON THE DASH COMES ON FOR YOU FREQUENTLY. YOU WILL BE SO ANNOYED THE YOU WILL WANT TO HAVE YOUR PRESSURE IN YOUR TIRES SO STABLE AND CONSTANT YOU COULD KILL FOR IT. I HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY SATISFYING TPMS VEHICLE OWNERS FOR THE PAST YEAR BY INSTALLING NITROGEN IN THEIR TIRES. THE PEACE OF MIND THAT THEY GET FAR OUT WEIGHS ANY SMALL COST INCURRED. IF YOU DO NOT MIND LIGHTS ON YOUR DASHBOARD COMING ON THEN REGULAR AIR WILL DO FOR YOU.
Still sounds like snake oil to me. Especially if you read and understand my September 30, 2008 post. (just think, with all the money you’ll save, you can buy a new Caps Lock key)
i am doing a science fair project focusing on this subject. do you have any advice?
How do I locate service stations that have nitrogen in my area?
You can actually tell me that it increases gas mileage, but the best logical thing to do is to provide any evidence and any simple math calculation whether it’s actually worth it or not.
I have a question: Not knowing the difference between Nitrogen and Air filled tires, I just wonder what happens if I drive from Corona,CA to Dallas,TX and need “air” in one or more of the tires. Can I mix the two? What would happen? An explosion? What if I am driving somewhere and there is NO Costco. Can I purchase tires from Costco and have the tires filled with “regular” air?? Anyone have honest answers?
I’ve been told mixing them isn’t a big deal.
Thank you, Jim. You have been told that, but I cannot help but wonder who told you that. I didn’t take physics or chemistry in High School back in the late ’60s and have no idea what all the hype is about. Thanks for answering.
I asked the Costco person, they said putting in a little regular air isn’t going to cause any problems. However, since Nitrogen is better, just go back and get it flushed and filled when you are by a Costco.
There would be NO effect if you added Air, There would be no effect if you added nitrogen. You’ve been sold a bill of goods to begin with but adding a 22% oxygen/78% nitrogen mix(air) to nitrogen at the minute levels topping your tire pressure requires would have Zero Impact. Pretty much the same impact as filling your tires with nitrogen.
I Have never read such ignorant posts in my life. NITROGEN does NOT explode, you idiots are thinking of hydrogen as was used in the Hindenberg.
Nitrogen vs Oxygen in tires isn’t about which is better.85% of tires are underinflated according to GAO studies and thats why they mandated the TPMS in cars starting in 2007. Most drivers do not check their press every month, if you do then compressed air from a source with a dryer is ok. However, if you don’t check your pressure every month, using Nitrogen give piece of mind that you will only lose 1-2 psi every 6months to a year vs 1-2 psi per month with air.
It’s that simple, the benefits from Nitrogen have nothing to do with the gas per se, it’s that nitrogen maintains proper tire pressure resulting in less friction associated with underinflation. The result better gas mileage, better handling, cooler tires, longer tire life.
not heard of befor but may be a gimick
Ashok Mathur, business manager for nitrogen tire inflation at Air Products and Chemicals in Allentown, Pa., said that owners could save up to $100 a year by keeping tires properly inflated, even with air, but that it’s easier with nitrogen, which takes 30 to 40 percent longer to leak out.
In its January issue, Consumer Reports magazine published data on a nitrogen experiment. Over a year, tires filled with nitrogen lost less pressure than those with air, losing 2.2 pounds a square inch, compared with 3.5 for air.
We have consistently gotten 3 mpg more on long trips after changing to nitrogen. In our Hyundai Santa Fe ‘04 6 cyl, we never got above 23 mpg on long trips. Now we get around 26 mpg. That is a better than 10% improvement.
The ride/steering control has also improved greatly since filling tires w/Nitrogen. Especially important in our very hot summers and monsoon rains.
You scientists and engineers and wannabees can theorize and pontificate and cock-spar all you want. The proof is in the results.
I too purchased a set of nitrogen filled tires from Costco. I thought I had done all the right homework on the subject of “new tires”. My Ford Escape was going to be taking a long haul from Virginia to Florida. My son was then taking my SUV to Orlando, to college. By my living 1 hour away in Port Orange, I knew there would be occasional weekend travels home. Also, with his chosen college focusing on an Associates Degree in Golf and Management, my son would be traveling throughout the state of Florida for qualifying matches and golf tournaments. Having a safe, durable, efficient tire was critical criteria for my purchasing decision. I had basically decided on the Michelin. When I visited the Costco Tire Department I explained to the technician what I needed. I did not mention my chosen intention. He lead me straight to the exact tire I had already intended to purchase. Even when I expressed interest in several other tires, both more and less expensive, he continued to redirect me back to this same tire. That made me feel comfortable and fairly confident I had made the right choice to begin with. Unfortunately, my confidence was short lived. My son was in his second week of school when he attempted to complete a left turn. The right front tire “exploded”, sending him airborne with the truck being his space vehicle. Now, we had not signed him up for SUV space travel, so obviously he was in some seriously uncontrollable trouble. The Ford Escape flew through a wire fence, the passenger side front windshield was impaled with the steel pole, that up to that point was supporting a previously intact fence. The force of all of this activity then caused the truck to do a 180 degree spin, with such intensity that my son’s glasses were stripped off his face and sent flying to the rear of the truck. Now the SUV was coming in for a landing….right into a muddy embankment and landing flat, crushing the undercarriage, but not deploying the airbag. When my son cell phoned me that morning with this news I immediately thanked God for saving my son from serious injury or possible death. I threw a handful of clothes in a travel tote and reached my son as fast as possible. Initially, I just wanted to grab my child to convince me he was in one piece. I must have spent the first hour of my arrival hugging him.
The following day I initiated a series of phone calls. I contacted Michelin, Costco, my insurance company and anyone else who could give me some insight into this situation. What I found to be most disturbing was Michelin kept referring to the incident as “a blow out”. Finally, frustrated and tired, I asked why no one would say the word “explode”? I was then informed that “tires don’t explode.” Then, I said, “would someone please tell me how a simple “flat tire” would send my son rifling through the air”. Still, I could get no one to use the words I was expressing. Furthermore, no one, including Costco gave interest to the fact that my son could have been fatally injured, or that I now had a vehicle laced with scratches and grooves to the entire hood and a windshield that was no longer legal to drive on Florida roads, or any other state road. Michelin wants “me” to mail them the tire, pay for the expenses of shipping, renting another vehicle, replacing the windshield, having the body work and mechanical repairs done. Then, once they have “scientifically” inspected the tire, and only IF the tire is defective, will they even CONSIDER addressing my claim for reimbursement for damage repairs. Do I have “DUHH” stamped on my forehead. “Michelin, everyone I talk to says…Can you spell L A W Y E R” ???
So far the tire has been inspected by 3 local independent tire service and sales companies. Unanimously they have all said the tire had a slow leak from a nail puncture. They informed me that when nitrogen is forced under pressure it heats up and eventually “explodes”. I am no mechanic, but, seriously I have never seen a tire that looked like bottle rockets were set off inside the tire.
Regular air is already 80% nitrogen.
Dear Anonymous,
I do not profess to understand or even know all there is to know about many things. That is why, if I am entering an arena where ignorance to information can be costly and/or deadly, I do try to become a more informed consumer by researching and asking questions. In this day and age “ignorance is bliss”, doesn’t cut you any slack. It was only after the “explosion”, I found several incidents blogged by people claiming to have had a similar experience. The majority of comments focused on the hype surrounding the automotive advantages of nitro use. Line up 50 people and ask them about their last flat tire. The majority will be nothing like mine. I know this. When a Michelin corporate executive tells me the “ONLY” way any tire could “explode” in a turn would be due to excessive speed by the driver during a turn, has never asked why a Jeep or other small SUV come installed with a “Roll Bar”. Durka..Durka..DUH!!! Sure, I have considered the possibility the tire may have been defective. Do you really think Michelin is going to get that tire and then inform me of a defect? Costco’s corporate executive heading their tire division called my son and urged him to tell me NOT to relinquish the tire to anyone, for any reason.(Hmmm…)
“Regular air is already 80% nitrogen.”
A fact that the nitrogen is deadly/magic/explosive/amazing people seem to not recognize.
The only times when nitrogen filled tires are significantly beneficial is when the tires are put to extremes. Racers often put nitrogen in their tires because tires do sometimes explode from being overheated by burning out or drifting if they’re filled with atmospheric air. Since the nitrogen doesnt expand as much as air, it is much safer to use as it is less likely to blow up the tires.
Aircraft tires are also filled with nitrogen. When an airplane lands, the tire isn’t rotating before the plane touches down. So when it does touch, the tire often skids on the pavement before getting up to the speed of the aircraft, and since most jets fly at 300 mph or more, you can imagine that the heat generated from that touchdown would be impressive. That’s why airplanes need nitrogen filled tires.
As for the daily driver, most people probably wouldn’t benefit much from nitrogen, but hey, 0.5 extra mi/gal does build up over time, similar to the “penny saved is a penny earned” saying, so go ahead if you’re an economic person.
BluButterfly… first of all that story does not sound legit at all. If your Ford Escape was sent airborne and landed with a fence through the windshield and then turned 180 degrees into a mud embankment… there would be a lot more damage than a broken windshield and scratched hood. Your SUV would resemble a crushed coffee can. And unless your insurance agent is a complete imbecile, they would have told you it was totaled and you would have gotten a new SUV instead of worrying about getting your windshield replaced. Either you made that entire story up, or your son was exaggerating how the accident happened.
As for the tire having a “blowout,” that phrase means exactly the same thing as “blowing up” or “exploding,” but in a more technical fashion because that is the term used when it happens to tires. So please, don’t get frustrated at the Michelin people for not realizing your tires were laced with dynamite powder.
And yes, it is true that nitrogen, as well as any other gas on the planet, will expand under heat and/or pressure. However, if nitrogen expands less than oxygen under heat/pressure, doesn’t that mean oxygen is more likely to blowout a tire? Isn’t that why every major airline in the world uses nitrogen in airplane tires? NASA even uses nitrogen in the tires of the space shuttle.
Whatever mechanics told you that your tire blew up from a slow leak from a nail increasing the pressure and causing the nitrogen to explode was lying to save themselves from a lawsuit. Of course the Michelin people are going to blame it on the nitrogen, not their defective tire. Even if it was true that nitrogen explodes under pressure, a slow leak means your tire is slowly losing pressure, not gaining pressure, and will not explode.
My guess is your son ran over a nail, didn’t realize it, and then either had some extremely fat people in his car when he took that turn, or he was driving too fast when he turned. Either one of those scenarios could have put too much force on that tire, and the nail hole created a weak spot which could have torn and caused the tire to blow out. But don’t blame it on the nitrogen. It’s just a gas, being a gas like a good gas should do.