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	<title>Comments on: On the 2008 Presidential Election</title>
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	<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html</link>
	<description>personal finance blog with anecdotes, advice and commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: JazzBumpa</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291378</link>
		<dc:creator>JazzBumpa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291378</guid>
		<description>Jon -

I guess that would be in Ayn Rand&#039;s novels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon -</p>
<p>I guess that would be in Ayn Rand&#8217;s novels.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291370</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 20:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291370</guid>
		<description>When have any real libertarian ideologies ever been practiced?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When have any real libertarian ideologies ever been practiced?</p>
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		<title>By: JazzBumpa</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291369</link>
		<dc:creator>JazzBumpa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 20:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291369</guid>
		<description>SK and MrToughMoneyLove are spouting right wing talking points that have no basis in reality.  Go check the facts.  The internet makes it really easy.  Here are a few. Republicans are very anti-small business.  Democrats consistently exhibit superior fiscal responsibility.  GDP growth is always better under Democrats.  

http://jazzbumpa.tumblr.com/post/57184519/republicans-not-so-good-for-business

(in this graph, the blue lines are avg GDP growth for Democratic Pres. term, and the red lines ditto for Republicans.)

The stock market does better under Democrats.

http://jazzbumpa.tumblr.com/post/57208259/republicans-bad-for-the-stock-market

The general trend over the last 45 years has been to lower taxation.  GDP growth over the period has systematically declined.  

http://jazzbumpa.tumblr.com/post/57522107/another-look-at-gdp-growth-graph-by-jazzbumpa

Conservatives, especially libertarians have great logic to their ideologies, but in the real world they simply don&#039;t work.  Check out what has happened to wealth and income distribution over the recent decades, with Republicans in the white house 28 of the last 40 years.  This is a big part of why we are living in 1929, part 2.

Clinton raised taxes, increased social spending and RAN A SURPLUS!.  Bush lowered taxes, cut social programs and the economy is in the toilet.  I am not preaching direct cause and effect for any specific program detail, but, please, do not let your ideology trump reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SK and MrToughMoneyLove are spouting right wing talking points that have no basis in reality.  Go check the facts.  The internet makes it really easy.  Here are a few. Republicans are very anti-small business.  Democrats consistently exhibit superior fiscal responsibility.  GDP growth is always better under Democrats.  </p>
<p><a href="http://jazzbumpa.tumblr.com/post/57184519/republicans-not-so-good-for-business" rel="nofollow">http://jazzbumpa.tumblr.com/post/57184519/republicans-not-so-good-for-business</a></p>
<p>(in this graph, the blue lines are avg GDP growth for Democratic Pres. term, and the red lines ditto for Republicans.)</p>
<p>The stock market does better under Democrats.</p>
<p><a href="http://jazzbumpa.tumblr.com/post/57208259/republicans-bad-for-the-stock-market" rel="nofollow">http://jazzbumpa.tumblr.com/post/57208259/republicans-bad-for-the-stock-market</a></p>
<p>The general trend over the last 45 years has been to lower taxation.  GDP growth over the period has systematically declined.  </p>
<p><a href="http://jazzbumpa.tumblr.com/post/57522107/another-look-at-gdp-growth-graph-by-jazzbumpa" rel="nofollow">http://jazzbumpa.tumblr.com/post/57522107/another-look-at-gdp-growth-graph-by-jazzbumpa</a></p>
<p>Conservatives, especially libertarians have great logic to their ideologies, but in the real world they simply don&#8217;t work.  Check out what has happened to wealth and income distribution over the recent decades, with Republicans in the white house 28 of the last 40 years.  This is a big part of why we are living in 1929, part 2.</p>
<p>Clinton raised taxes, increased social spending and RAN A SURPLUS!.  Bush lowered taxes, cut social programs and the economy is in the toilet.  I am not preaching direct cause and effect for any specific program detail, but, please, do not let your ideology trump reality.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291337</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291337</guid>
		<description>Ned - I was referring to his age, not his military accomplishments, I agree with your points though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ned &#8211; I was referring to his age, not his military accomplishments, I agree with your points though.</p>
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		<title>By: Ned</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291335</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291335</guid>
		<description>Jim,

McCain was the son (and grandson) of 4-star Navy Admirals, he was guaranteed a spot in the USNA from birth and therefore guaranteed to become an officer (despite barrrrrrely graduating).  You&#039;re claiming his ascension to public office is roughly as probable as a black boy raised by a single white woman who was so poor she had to use food stamps?  I think that&#039;s a little ... off.

McCain is a war hero, and his continued service to his country (despite enormous wealth) is something we can all look up to, but ... come on now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,</p>
<p>McCain was the son (and grandson) of 4-star Navy Admirals, he was guaranteed a spot in the USNA from birth and therefore guaranteed to become an officer (despite barrrrrrely graduating).  You&#8217;re claiming his ascension to public office is roughly as probable as a black boy raised by a single white woman who was so poor she had to use food stamps?  I think that&#8217;s a little &#8230; off.</p>
<p>McCain is a war hero, and his continued service to his country (despite enormous wealth) is something we can all look up to, but &#8230; come on now.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291252</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 03:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291252</guid>
		<description>@Catherine: I don&#039;t know if that&#039;s a fair statement to make based on so little information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Catherine: I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s a fair statement to make based on so little information.</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine Tan</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291251</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291251</guid>
		<description>I suspect it was because your father was scared that the mainland Chinese government might integrate Taiwan as during the imperial times.  He did it to evade war for himself and his children.  And he was not the only one either.  

In that sense, America was a land of opportunity: the opportunity to avoid possible war and deprivations, and to stay in a safer country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect it was because your father was scared that the mainland Chinese government might integrate Taiwan as during the imperial times.  He did it to evade war for himself and his children.  And he was not the only one either.  </p>
<p>In that sense, America was a land of opportunity: the opportunity to avoid possible war and deprivations, and to stay in a safer country.</p>
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		<title>By: Jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291250</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 02:16:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291250</guid>
		<description>When McCain used a racial slur against Asians it made me realize he&#039;s not fit to be president.*

Add in all his other inappropriate comments towards women and other individuals and it&#039;s clear he would have been an embarrassment if he represented us.


*I know the arguments, that he only used the slur against his captors, etc., etc. But you can bet if he said it about any other minority group his political career would have been over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When McCain used a racial slur against Asians it made me realize he&#8217;s not fit to be president.*</p>
<p>Add in all his other inappropriate comments towards women and other individuals and it&#8217;s clear he would have been an embarrassment if he represented us.</p>
<p>*I know the arguments, that he only used the slur against his captors, etc., etc. But you can bet if he said it about any other minority group his political career would have been over.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291242</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 22:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291242</guid>
		<description>&quot;Hard work does pay off but if it pays off too well for you, the government won’t appreciate that. The government will only appreciate hard work that pays off everyone, including those that don’t work so hard.&quot;

You are so right - the government of the last 8 years has not been taking your money and wasting it at all!  They let you keep it all and stayed out of your business, right? 

Wrong. Talk about wasting taxpayer money...

And as for hard work - teachers work hard and get nothing. Community organizers work hard and get nothing. Police and fire get barely anything.

Guess they don&#039;t work hard enough to get paid well for what they do. It&#039;s much harder to sit in an office all day pushing paper, no?  Now THAT deserves more pay!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Hard work does pay off but if it pays off too well for you, the government won’t appreciate that. The government will only appreciate hard work that pays off everyone, including those that don’t work so hard.&#8221;</p>
<p>You are so right &#8211; the government of the last 8 years has not been taking your money and wasting it at all!  They let you keep it all and stayed out of your business, right? </p>
<p>Wrong. Talk about wasting taxpayer money&#8230;</p>
<p>And as for hard work &#8211; teachers work hard and get nothing. Community organizers work hard and get nothing. Police and fire get barely anything.</p>
<p>Guess they don&#8217;t work hard enough to get paid well for what they do. It&#8217;s much harder to sit in an office all day pushing paper, no?  Now THAT deserves more pay!</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291225</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291225</guid>
		<description>I felt sorry for McCain in 2000, to see him push-polled in such a dirty way by the Bush-Rove machine. But this time around I didn&#039;t feel sorry for him, and not because of his strategic blunders. He kept on trying to paint Obama as a socialist (which he&#039;s clearly not) and a terrorist (which he&#039;s clearly not) and as someone who doesn&#039;t understand economics (which is clearly more true of McCain). 

And I know you&#039;re angry, Jadzia, but you should really think before you speak. Law school not hard? Why don&#039;t you give it a try if it&#039;s so easy? Ever try to understand a law book? See, this is largely why McCain lost - he appealed to people&#039;s bitterness by saying, &quot;See, it&#039;s US vs. THEM, those ELITES!&quot; But meanwhile, in the real world, McCain didn&#039;t acknowledge that those &quot;elite&quot; areas are full of people working their butts off and not always getting paid or treated quite so well as it seems. Also, how is it that, to you, nurses are *uneducated* and make *minimum wage*? Where I&#039;m from, nurses have to get higher ed, and then are in such demand that they typically make some nice wages. But they&#039;re doing hard work, I&#039;ll give you that. If you know some nurses being paid that terribly, by all means, tell them to look around NY state, we need them! Maybe you&#039;re talking about people who work in hospitals and clinics who don&#039;t have a nursing degree or license...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I felt sorry for McCain in 2000, to see him push-polled in such a dirty way by the Bush-Rove machine. But this time around I didn&#8217;t feel sorry for him, and not because of his strategic blunders. He kept on trying to paint Obama as a socialist (which he&#8217;s clearly not) and a terrorist (which he&#8217;s clearly not) and as someone who doesn&#8217;t understand economics (which is clearly more true of McCain). </p>
<p>And I know you&#8217;re angry, Jadzia, but you should really think before you speak. Law school not hard? Why don&#8217;t you give it a try if it&#8217;s so easy? Ever try to understand a law book? See, this is largely why McCain lost &#8211; he appealed to people&#8217;s bitterness by saying, &#8220;See, it&#8217;s US vs. THEM, those ELITES!&#8221; But meanwhile, in the real world, McCain didn&#8217;t acknowledge that those &#8220;elite&#8221; areas are full of people working their butts off and not always getting paid or treated quite so well as it seems. Also, how is it that, to you, nurses are *uneducated* and make *minimum wage*? Where I&#8217;m from, nurses have to get higher ed, and then are in such demand that they typically make some nice wages. But they&#8217;re doing hard work, I&#8217;ll give you that. If you know some nurses being paid that terribly, by all means, tell them to look around NY state, we need them! Maybe you&#8217;re talking about people who work in hospitals and clinics who don&#8217;t have a nursing degree or license&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291215</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291215</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Jon - just as I wouldn&#039;t ever say a waitress or a construction worker or a stay-at-home-mom doesn&#039;t have a hard job because I haven&#039;t ever DONE those jobs, I wouldn&#039;t presume to say being a lawyer is easy.  Studying at private schools and colleges and teaching law after getting a law degree is hard work, too, and involves a lot of personal sacrifices, long hours and low pay.  I was a teaching assistant for 2 years and learned to live off $800 a month while putting myself through grad school on my own dime.  Yeah, it paid off, but only after 15 years of back-breaking work in public accounting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Jon &#8211; just as I wouldn&#8217;t ever say a waitress or a construction worker or a stay-at-home-mom doesn&#8217;t have a hard job because I haven&#8217;t ever DONE those jobs, I wouldn&#8217;t presume to say being a lawyer is easy.  Studying at private schools and colleges and teaching law after getting a law degree is hard work, too, and involves a lot of personal sacrifices, long hours and low pay.  I was a teaching assistant for 2 years and learned to live off $800 a month while putting myself through grad school on my own dime.  Yeah, it paid off, but only after 15 years of back-breaking work in public accounting.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291213</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291213</guid>
		<description>Sorry, but law school is hard work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but law school is hard work.</p>
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		<title>By: Jadzia</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291211</link>
		<dc:creator>Jadzia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291211</guid>
		<description>I disagree with the premise of this post.  Being sent to private schools and private colleges, moving on to lecture at a law school and sit on a few boards, and moving from there to land in political offices where you never get your hands dirty and the job is essentially part time -- that&#039;s not hard work.  Hard work is done by the construction workers, the nurses who make minimum wage and don&#039;t receive health benefits themselves, by ditch diggers and waitresses and, yes, plumbers.  You know, all those bitter and uneducated folks.  What I learned from this election is that the Democrats can out-thug the Republicans (and can at least give them a run for their money in the woman-hating department), or at least they did this time around.  And in the end, we all lose.  Even those of us (like me -- I have young kids and I work two full time jobs) who work hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with the premise of this post.  Being sent to private schools and private colleges, moving on to lecture at a law school and sit on a few boards, and moving from there to land in political offices where you never get your hands dirty and the job is essentially part time &#8212; that&#8217;s not hard work.  Hard work is done by the construction workers, the nurses who make minimum wage and don&#8217;t receive health benefits themselves, by ditch diggers and waitresses and, yes, plumbers.  You know, all those bitter and uneducated folks.  What I learned from this election is that the Democrats can out-thug the Republicans (and can at least give them a run for their money in the woman-hating department), or at least they did this time around.  And in the end, we all lose.  Even those of us (like me &#8212; I have young kids and I work two full time jobs) who work hard.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. ToughMoneyLove</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291209</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. ToughMoneyLove</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291209</guid>
		<description>Hard work does pay off but if it pays off too well for you, the government won&#039;t appreciate that.  The government will only appreciate hard work that pays off everyone, including those that don&#039;t work so hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hard work does pay off but if it pays off too well for you, the government won&#8217;t appreciate that.  The government will only appreciate hard work that pays off everyone, including those that don&#8217;t work so hard.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/on-the-2008-presidential-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-291207</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=3783#comment-291207</guid>
		<description>Jim, I don&#039;t disagree that some third party candidates get a little press from the media, but why exclude them from the national presidential debates?  I know it harder to have a debate with many people instead of just two.  It just feels like they are intentionally leaving them out just because the media either doesn&#039;t want them to have a standing chance or feels they won&#039;t win.  Maybe they would have a greater chance if they got the opportunity to be on the national stage.

I agree completely with the compromise issue as I have to do it all the time in my relationship as do most people :)  If a candidate has views that match up completely with yours or where you only have to compromise a few things, why not vote for them.  Also, I just feel that third parties are given no chance because they are not the Republican or Democratic party and has nothing to do with their issues.  I get taken as a joke or even laughed at when I tell people I am voting for a third party candidate.  That just doesnt&#039; seem right when they haven&#039;t even look at the other candidates views to know the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, I don&#8217;t disagree that some third party candidates get a little press from the media, but why exclude them from the national presidential debates?  I know it harder to have a debate with many people instead of just two.  It just feels like they are intentionally leaving them out just because the media either doesn&#8217;t want them to have a standing chance or feels they won&#8217;t win.  Maybe they would have a greater chance if they got the opportunity to be on the national stage.</p>
<p>I agree completely with the compromise issue as I have to do it all the time in my relationship as do most people <img src='http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   If a candidate has views that match up completely with yours or where you only have to compromise a few things, why not vote for them.  Also, I just feel that third parties are given no chance because they are not the Republican or Democratic party and has nothing to do with their issues.  I get taken as a joke or even laughed at when I tell people I am voting for a third party candidate.  That just doesnt&#8217; seem right when they haven&#8217;t even look at the other candidates views to know the truth.</p>
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