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	<title>Comments on: Revisiting My Rent vs. Buy Analysis from 2005</title>
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	<description>personal finance blog with anecdotes, advice and commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: datruth</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-365179</link>
		<dc:creator>datruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 17:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html#comment-365179</guid>
		<description>Everyone open your 3rd pyrmd eye.its only a dream to own.its the banks house,buildings,loans,tax,the new world order of the american dream!  I call it the new way to fuck and slave any idiot who takes that stupid greedy step for a dream. Find your soul,peace,god.                                  in god i trust</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone open your 3rd pyrmd eye.its only a dream to own.its the banks house,buildings,loans,tax,the new world order of the american dream!  I call it the new way to fuck and slave any idiot who takes that stupid greedy step for a dream. Find your soul,peace,god.                                  in god i trust</p>
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		<title>By: cory</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-339989</link>
		<dc:creator>cory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html#comment-339989</guid>
		<description>You didn&#039;t include anything for maintenance of the owned dwelling. Plumbing repairs, HVAC checkups, water heater failures, are the little ones.  Tack on accruals for a new roof and paint and new HVAC and you have a whole new cost of ownership. 

I rent a single-family home on the same street that I previously owned.  My PITI was $1950 with a good loan.  My rent is $1300. The houses are the same from a livability point of view. I&#039;m $6600 a year ahead, NOT counting maintenance costs and accruals.

I think most homeowners are fooling themselves about the financial aspects of it, and it is really just the only way that they can save---it&#039;s sort of a forced savings, and even then only as long as there is appreciation.  With ANY depreciation, renting is the hands-down winner.  

If I am willing to pay in rent for a home similar to what I can buy, AND I invest the difference instead of spending it, I will be able to live in the same neighborhood and it is my contention that I will win financially every time.  I will gladly trade this comfort for the &quot;comfort&quot; of calling it my own. 

I think it&#039;s crazy that an &quot;investment&quot; with a long-term annualized return of 3-4% BEFORE COSTS is even considered as an investment.  That rate of return on any financial instrument would be considered very poor--tax free bonds do better!  

I agree that having a landlord sell under you is a hassle, and has a moving cost associated with it as well as the more intangible costs, but the right deal with the right landlord should minimize potential for this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You didn&#8217;t include anything for maintenance of the owned dwelling. Plumbing repairs, HVAC checkups, water heater failures, are the little ones.  Tack on accruals for a new roof and paint and new HVAC and you have a whole new cost of ownership. </p>
<p>I rent a single-family home on the same street that I previously owned.  My PITI was $1950 with a good loan.  My rent is $1300. The houses are the same from a livability point of view. I&#8217;m $6600 a year ahead, NOT counting maintenance costs and accruals.</p>
<p>I think most homeowners are fooling themselves about the financial aspects of it, and it is really just the only way that they can save&#8212;it&#8217;s sort of a forced savings, and even then only as long as there is appreciation.  With ANY depreciation, renting is the hands-down winner.  </p>
<p>If I am willing to pay in rent for a home similar to what I can buy, AND I invest the difference instead of spending it, I will be able to live in the same neighborhood and it is my contention that I will win financially every time.  I will gladly trade this comfort for the &#8220;comfort&#8221; of calling it my own. </p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s crazy that an &#8220;investment&#8221; with a long-term annualized return of 3-4% BEFORE COSTS is even considered as an investment.  That rate of return on any financial instrument would be considered very poor&#8211;tax free bonds do better!  </p>
<p>I agree that having a landlord sell under you is a hassle, and has a moving cost associated with it as well as the more intangible costs, but the right deal with the right landlord should minimize potential for this.</p>
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		<title>By: MoneyNing</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211468</link>
		<dc:creator>MoneyNing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hmm.  I recently decided to move to a higher end apartment where the monthly payment was almost the same as buying a home.  I decided that I still wanted to rent because I believe:

1. The price of houses in California is going to drop more than the rent I will pay
2. There are much more expenses of owning a home other than the mortgage payments.
3. I&#039;m not sure I want to stay where I am long term yet.

Of course, reason #1 might be a big &quot;if&quot; so we will see whether my decision was financially correct or not.  As I see it, houses in my area (orange county, CA) will be depreciating for the next few years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.  I recently decided to move to a higher end apartment where the monthly payment was almost the same as buying a home.  I decided that I still wanted to rent because I believe:</p>
<p>1. The price of houses in California is going to drop more than the rent I will pay<br />
2. There are much more expenses of owning a home other than the mortgage payments.<br />
3. I&#8217;m not sure I want to stay where I am long term yet.</p>
<p>Of course, reason #1 might be a big &#8220;if&#8221; so we will see whether my decision was financially correct or not.  As I see it, houses in my area (orange county, CA) will be depreciating for the next few years.</p>
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		<title>By: gubmintmole</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211291</link>
		<dc:creator>gubmintmole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I always find it interesting to read this debate, and as several others have mentioned it can&#039;t be boiled down to a purely financial decision.

I&#039;ve lived in several places as a renter which I loved and had no intention of leaving when I was single.  Unfortunately, in all 3 cases the landlord sold the place out from under me and I was forced to move.  This was when I was single.

Now married, with two kids I wouldn&#039;t even think of renting anywhere unless I absolutely had to.  I&#039;ve owned my house now for 6 years and as much as I hate having to take care of everything myself instead of calling the landlord, it beats being kicked out on a periodic basis.  My only house regret is buying a bigger house than I needed.  I find the more stuff I own, the less time I have.  I don&#039;t own all the crap I have, it owns me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always find it interesting to read this debate, and as several others have mentioned it can&#8217;t be boiled down to a purely financial decision.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve lived in several places as a renter which I loved and had no intention of leaving when I was single.  Unfortunately, in all 3 cases the landlord sold the place out from under me and I was forced to move.  This was when I was single.</p>
<p>Now married, with two kids I wouldn&#8217;t even think of renting anywhere unless I absolutely had to.  I&#8217;ve owned my house now for 6 years and as much as I hate having to take care of everything myself instead of calling the landlord, it beats being kicked out on a periodic basis.  My only house regret is buying a bigger house than I needed.  I find the more stuff I own, the less time I have.  I don&#8217;t own all the crap I have, it owns me.</p>
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		<title>By: Early Retirement Extreme</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211238</link>
		<dc:creator>Early Retirement Extreme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 05:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The long term growth rate of real estate is the inflation rate, no more, no less. 3-4% is more reasonable that 6%. The NAV is as far as I remember annual rent - 30-40% of that for maintenance, property taxes, etc. divided by the risk free rate plus a couple of percent. If NAV is higher than the house price, buy. If it is lower, rent. In CA where NAV is half of the going price, renting is a no-brainer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The long term growth rate of real estate is the inflation rate, no more, no less. 3-4% is more reasonable that 6%. The NAV is as far as I remember annual rent &#8211; 30-40% of that for maintenance, property taxes, etc. divided by the risk free rate plus a couple of percent. If NAV is higher than the house price, buy. If it is lower, rent. In CA where NAV is half of the going price, renting is a no-brainer.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211224</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 03:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html#comment-211224</guid>
		<description>Your conservative $10k estimate for a finished basement, windows, and fireplace is probably very conservative. You can generally expect to get 80% of your value back out of a basement remodel, and new windows are a great selling point. Of course, I don&#039;t know what you spent on your basement remodel, but they usually cost a minimum of $10-20k (even when you do some of the work yourself). We did ours last summer and it was toward the upper end of that range. 

Either way, I think you made the right decision to buy. It is nice to have a place to call your own, and it is great to build equity. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your conservative $10k estimate for a finished basement, windows, and fireplace is probably very conservative. You can generally expect to get 80% of your value back out of a basement remodel, and new windows are a great selling point. Of course, I don&#8217;t know what you spent on your basement remodel, but they usually cost a minimum of $10-20k (even when you do some of the work yourself). We did ours last summer and it was toward the upper end of that range. </p>
<p>Either way, I think you made the right decision to buy. It is nice to have a place to call your own, and it is great to build equity. <img src='http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: plonkee</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211116</link>
		<dc:creator>plonkee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html#comment-211116</guid>
		<description>Given that your time frames to break even are quite short term, I&#039;d have considered the effects of no appreciation or even a decline in prices. I think that it helps to consider pretty much all the scenarios even if they vary wildly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that your time frames to break even are quite short term, I&#8217;d have considered the effects of no appreciation or even a decline in prices. I think that it helps to consider pretty much all the scenarios even if they vary wildly.</p>
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		<title>By: Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211047</link>
		<dc:creator>Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jim, awesome post!  What a brilliant idea! =P

Glad the numbers still make sense (perhaps even more so than before!).  The &quot;apples to apples&quot; piece is key.  The slight twist is that you would have been willing to live in a (much less nice) apartment for $1100.  But none the less, you would have *rented* there.  On the other side, knowing you, I sincerely doubt you would have rented a place as nice as your current place because it would cost you ~2k/month!  Hence, the rub (certainly not specific to you).

We&#039;re willing to buy nicer places than we rent, even though it costs us because we&#039;ll *own* it (duh).  Renting is temporary and the mentality is &quot;it&#039;s not mine&quot; so it isn&#039;t a reflection of of ourselves.  Hence, saving money out weighs having a nice place (especially if you don&#039;t have kids).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, awesome post!  What a brilliant idea! =P</p>
<p>Glad the numbers still make sense (perhaps even more so than before!).  The &#8220;apples to apples&#8221; piece is key.  The slight twist is that you would have been willing to live in a (much less nice) apartment for $1100.  But none the less, you would have *rented* there.  On the other side, knowing you, I sincerely doubt you would have rented a place as nice as your current place because it would cost you ~2k/month!  Hence, the rub (certainly not specific to you).</p>
<p>We&#8217;re willing to buy nicer places than we rent, even though it costs us because we&#8217;ll *own* it (duh).  Renting is temporary and the mentality is &#8220;it&#8217;s not mine&#8221; so it isn&#8217;t a reflection of of ourselves.  Hence, saving money out weighs having a nice place (especially if you don&#8217;t have kids).</p>
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		<title>By: RacerX</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211041</link>
		<dc:creator>RacerX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html#comment-211041</guid>
		<description>For my personal psychology it just feels better to own. It is the whole &quot;Its my wall and I can hang up a picture&quot; argument.

But for us we had more money as a renter, but this is due to us buying to big. When the house is paid off, I will have a pretty valuable asset.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For my personal psychology it just feels better to own. It is the whole &#8220;Its my wall and I can hang up a picture&#8221; argument.</p>
<p>But for us we had more money as a renter, but this is due to us buying to big. When the house is paid off, I will have a pretty valuable asset.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211038</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>CD: I don&#039;t know the specifics of the deals other than knowing the final sale price, but the two most recent homes were on the market less than a week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CD: I don&#8217;t know the specifics of the deals other than knowing the final sale price, but the two most recent homes were on the market less than a week.</p>
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		<title>By: Clever Dude</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211036</link>
		<dc:creator>Clever Dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jim, are the selling prices you&#039;re seeing reflect how much the sellers paid towards closing costs? The local realtor in my area sends out quarterly reports and recently added those figures. We&#039;re seeing homes selling for asking price, but they&#039;re on the market up to 6 months (or even more) with $10-15k cash back from the sellers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, are the selling prices you&#8217;re seeing reflect how much the sellers paid towards closing costs? The local realtor in my area sends out quarterly reports and recently added those figures. We&#8217;re seeing homes selling for asking price, but they&#8217;re on the market up to 6 months (or even more) with $10-15k cash back from the sellers.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211014</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I was just thinking the same thing :) thanks b-rad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just thinking the same thing <img src='http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  thanks b-rad</p>
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		<title>By: B-rad</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211012</link>
		<dc:creator>B-rad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A potential topic to discuss for potential homebuyer&#039;s in a future post?  How does one estimate extra cost impact when looking to buy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A potential topic to discuss for potential homebuyer&#8217;s in a future post?  How does one estimate extra cost impact when looking to buy?</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211007</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html#comment-211007</guid>
		<description>B-rad: That&#039;s a good point, I should&#039;ve included those but didn&#039;t because at the time (two years ago) I didn&#039;t know exactly what they&#039;d be, excellent point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B-rad: That&#8217;s a good point, I should&#8217;ve included those but didn&#8217;t because at the time (two years ago) I didn&#8217;t know exactly what they&#8217;d be, excellent point.</p>
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		<title>By: B-rad</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/revisiting-my-rent-vs-buy-analysis-from-2005.html/comment-page-1#comment-211002</link>
		<dc:creator>B-rad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>what about all the other things you have spent money on? How can you leave those out of the equation?  Closing costs, insurance, taxes, assessments, HOA, etc, etc?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what about all the other things you have spent money on? How can you leave those out of the equation?  Closing costs, insurance, taxes, assessments, HOA, etc, etc?</p>
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