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	<title>Comments on: S&amp;P Futures vs Fair Value: -5.5, What Does That Mean!?</title>
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	<description>personal finance blog with anecdotes, advice and commentary.</description>
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		<title>By: Matt Joffe</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/sp-futures-vs-fair-value-55-what-does-that-mean.html/comment-page-1#comment-374676</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Joffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Sep 2011 23:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/sp-futures-vs-fair-value-55-what-does-that-mean.html#comment-374676</guid>
		<description>MoneyNing , thanks for putting yourself out there ! Paul Lepage a little uncalled for for just pointing to a website that went on nut doesn&#039;t conciesely answer an honest persons question ... so :

Usually when fair value is refered to it is regarding the fair value of the futures contract and the futures versus fair value is really just the futures versus the fair value of the futures.


Taking a step back , the &quot;spot&quot; or instantaneus value of the index, in this case the s&amp;p500 is just the spot value of its individual constituents added together. During times of peak liquidity ( when the US Markets are open) this is usually refered to as the last taded price of the individual constituent which sums to the index spot but things can be viewed in a slightly different light by looking at the best bid and best ask of the index ( usually with a comparitive amount of notional to the value of a futures contract which we&#039;ll get into a second. The mid point of these 2 could be used as the fair value of the index ...

Now to futures on the SP500. THere are 2 different sizes of contract one is 50x the index close at the futures date (the emini) and the other is 250x the index at the futures date. Both are traded on the CME electronically ( I believe 6 out of 7 days a week 24/7 ) and I also believe next to currencies and US Treasuries are the most highly transacted intrument in the world.
Now index futrures usually have a September / December / March / July expiration and I believe it is the same as most other futures and options contract which is technically the satrday following the 3rd friday of the month  ( athough Friday is the last trading day).

Most of the open interest is in the &quot;front&quot; month or closest to expiry and only a few trading days before the expiry does the open interest &quot;roll&quot; to the next expiration. 

Now to get to the theoretical arbitrage free fair value price of the future ..... The fair value price of the future would be the price assuming the value of the index didn&#039;t change at all between now and the expiration date but also discounting for the timevalue of money or basically taking the amount of time untill the expiration of the front month and reducuing the spot of the index to what you would have to put in now to end up getting the value of the index being paid intrest in accordance with the risk free rate corresponding to the amount of time and the currencey of the index. In this case the us treasuey yield cureve is usually used ....

Now if the actual futures market is trading at one price the fair value of the futures would be the last index price discounted the time value between now and the futures expiration.


I could go on into index arb buty yhay really has to do with taking advantage of either the difference between the index spot bid and the fair value of the futures spot ask or the index spot ask and the fair value of futures spot bid. If either of these exceeded the transaction cost and a certain degree of risk taking place due to very short term market volatility ... You could make money in a guarenteed fashion.


Let me be very clear that no individual investor could accomplish this task. Not only does this require huge amounts of capital but, almost zero transaction costs due to either being such a high volume prime-brokergae customer or an actual exchange member AND extremely low latency ... the amount of time from getting the quotes to acting on them and having them execute is extremely low ( accomplished through low latencey co location )

Anyway thats my shpeel on index futrures any questions let me know. I have traded professionally bilions of dollars worth of them using high frequency strategies in my time ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MoneyNing , thanks for putting yourself out there ! Paul Lepage a little uncalled for for just pointing to a website that went on nut doesn&#8217;t conciesely answer an honest persons question &#8230; so :</p>
<p>Usually when fair value is refered to it is regarding the fair value of the futures contract and the futures versus fair value is really just the futures versus the fair value of the futures.</p>
<p>Taking a step back , the &#8220;spot&#8221; or instantaneus value of the index, in this case the s&amp;p500 is just the spot value of its individual constituents added together. During times of peak liquidity ( when the US Markets are open) this is usually refered to as the last taded price of the individual constituent which sums to the index spot but things can be viewed in a slightly different light by looking at the best bid and best ask of the index ( usually with a comparitive amount of notional to the value of a futures contract which we&#8217;ll get into a second. The mid point of these 2 could be used as the fair value of the index &#8230;</p>
<p>Now to futures on the SP500. THere are 2 different sizes of contract one is 50x the index close at the futures date (the emini) and the other is 250x the index at the futures date. Both are traded on the CME electronically ( I believe 6 out of 7 days a week 24/7 ) and I also believe next to currencies and US Treasuries are the most highly transacted intrument in the world.<br />
Now index futrures usually have a September / December / March / July expiration and I believe it is the same as most other futures and options contract which is technically the satrday following the 3rd friday of the month  ( athough Friday is the last trading day).</p>
<p>Most of the open interest is in the &#8220;front&#8221; month or closest to expiry and only a few trading days before the expiry does the open interest &#8220;roll&#8221; to the next expiration. </p>
<p>Now to get to the theoretical arbitrage free fair value price of the future &#8230;.. The fair value price of the future would be the price assuming the value of the index didn&#8217;t change at all between now and the expiration date but also discounting for the timevalue of money or basically taking the amount of time untill the expiration of the front month and reducuing the spot of the index to what you would have to put in now to end up getting the value of the index being paid intrest in accordance with the risk free rate corresponding to the amount of time and the currencey of the index. In this case the us treasuey yield cureve is usually used &#8230;.</p>
<p>Now if the actual futures market is trading at one price the fair value of the futures would be the last index price discounted the time value between now and the futures expiration.</p>
<p>I could go on into index arb buty yhay really has to do with taking advantage of either the difference between the index spot bid and the fair value of the futures spot ask or the index spot ask and the fair value of futures spot bid. If either of these exceeded the transaction cost and a certain degree of risk taking place due to very short term market volatility &#8230; You could make money in a guarenteed fashion.</p>
<p>Let me be very clear that no individual investor could accomplish this task. Not only does this require huge amounts of capital but, almost zero transaction costs due to either being such a high volume prime-brokergae customer or an actual exchange member AND extremely low latency &#8230; the amount of time from getting the quotes to acting on them and having them execute is extremely low ( accomplished through low latencey co location )</p>
<p>Anyway thats my shpeel on index futrures any questions let me know. I have traded professionally bilions of dollars worth of them using high frequency strategies in my time &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dunce</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/sp-futures-vs-fair-value-55-what-does-that-mean.html/comment-page-1#comment-348930</link>
		<dc:creator>Dunce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 23:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/sp-futures-vs-fair-value-55-what-does-that-mean.html#comment-348930</guid>
		<description>MoneyNing, you should not have been so quick to think that you learned something. Jim Wang was not sure and was asking for the answer himself.

Vince and Ed English had there own little conversation.

So Paul Lepage Your second to last sentence was uncalled for. The rest was good. Thank you for your last sentence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MoneyNing, you should not have been so quick to think that you learned something. Jim Wang was not sure and was asking for the answer himself.</p>
<p>Vince and Ed English had there own little conversation.</p>
<p>So Paul Lepage Your second to last sentence was uncalled for. The rest was good. Thank you for your last sentence.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Lepage</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/sp-futures-vs-fair-value-55-what-does-that-mean.html/comment-page-1#comment-302573</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Lepage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 05:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/sp-futures-vs-fair-value-55-what-does-that-mean.html#comment-302573</guid>
		<description>The information in this post is very wrong. The simplest way of looking at it is that the fair value is a way of finding an approximate equilibrium between the stock market and the market for lending (interest rates). None of your half assed calculations in this post make any sense. 
Take a look at indexarb.com if you want to learn more about fair value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The information in this post is very wrong. The simplest way of looking at it is that the fair value is a way of finding an approximate equilibrium between the stock market and the market for lending (interest rates). None of your half assed calculations in this post make any sense.<br />
Take a look at indexarb.com if you want to learn more about fair value.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed English</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/sp-futures-vs-fair-value-55-what-does-that-mean.html/comment-page-1#comment-293506</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed English</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/sp-futures-vs-fair-value-55-what-does-that-mean.html#comment-293506</guid>
		<description>http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/futures.html

Bloomberg posts these everyday all day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/futures.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/futures.html</a></p>
<p>Bloomberg posts these everyday all day.</p>
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		<title>By: Vince</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/sp-futures-vs-fair-value-55-what-does-that-mean.html/comment-page-1#comment-291741</link>
		<dc:creator>Vince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/sp-futures-vs-fair-value-55-what-does-that-mean.html#comment-291741</guid>
		<description>Where can I find the S&amp;P vs. fair value figure everyday before the markets open every day at 9:30 eastern time?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where can I find the S&amp;P vs. fair value figure everyday before the markets open every day at 9:30 eastern time?</p>
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		<title>By: MoneyNing</title>
		<link>http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/sp-futures-vs-fair-value-55-what-does-that-mean.html/comment-page-1#comment-171742</link>
		<dc:creator>MoneyNing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/sp-futures-vs-fair-value-55-what-does-that-mean.html#comment-171742</guid>
		<description>Learned something new today!  I actually think that sometimes we have so much information that it doesn&#039;t do us any good but it&#039;s always good to know more anyhow!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Learned something new today!  I actually think that sometimes we have so much information that it doesn&#8217;t do us any good but it&#8217;s always good to know more anyhow!!!</p>
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