Comments on: Try Living On Minimum Wage http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html personal finance blog with anecdotes, advice and commentary. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:04:27 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: jose garmos http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-328933 jose garmos Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:45:17 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-328933 1500 at most for chapter seven bankruptcies, it's actually a very easy process and tends to be straightforward. Also if you are truly "struggling" you can discharge your student loans under the reason of hardship. And finally if you are homeless or facing homlessness then you can apply for the homeless prevention fund created by the stimulus acts, over 4 billion dollars doled out to the states! 4 billion! 1500 at most for chapter seven bankruptcies, it’s actually a very easy process and tends to be straightforward. Also if you are truly “struggling” you can discharge your student loans under the reason of hardship. And finally if you are homeless or facing homlessness then you can apply for the homeless prevention fund created by the stimulus acts, over 4 billion dollars doled out to the states! 4 billion!

]]> By: jose garmos http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-328932 jose garmos Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:37:48 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-328932 If you save, invest, and spend wisely it is no problem at all, but a very difficult and miserble existence. I lived off of minimum wage for a year and half, from feb 08-september 09. For an entire year I lived off of an average of 500 dollars a month.Could you do this? From feb-september 08 I paid an average of 300 dollars a month for rent, so each month I had a slight surplus. However my entire savings were wiped out due to a family emergency, then wiped out again when I attempted to return to college. When returning I got a job that paid 500 dollars a month at best, and my rent was 400, along with gas each month I had zero surplus, actually I typically had to borrow 80 dollars each month from my father and pay him back a few weeks later, only to borrow it again. Living on so very little created a disaster of homelessness the moment an unexpected expense occured, for 2 weeks I was homeless at the age of 21 and then I gained another job,(2 jobs) and pulled myself out but sadly found myself in a similar predicament. I found a new place for 400 dollars a month, yet each month I had little to nor surplus due to my such low income. Just imagine living off of 500 dollars a month. I was invaribly hungry, in some periods I would go a week without eating, 2 weeks barely eating. I could never get food stamps because the unethical assholes I lived with wouldn't admit I lived with them(tax evaders). No pleasures or neccesities outside of gas or minor food purchases. Then I became homeless again when my temp. job ended for a week, then I lived with my parents for a month and in the first week got another job(minimum wage of course) along with working one day per hour week at a location 90 minutes away. Which was necessary even thou it cost almost 100 dollars in gas to drive there, it was still 200 dollars after cost. So anyways from that period until a few weeks ago, I lived on 900 a month. 400 for rent, 100 for utilities, 30 dollars for my phone, 100 for gas, 100 for food,20 for tobacco. That's it, so I surplused 200 each month or intended to. However each month I've had to pay for expenses for my car, education, et cetra. Now I got another job, paying 12.25 an hour, more like 10.50 because it's an education job(salary,-holidays) so with this job I'll net 300 for the next few months, as now I'm paying back 100 dollar per month debt to my father and now I'm paying for car insurance/internet at 20 dollars a month. In january I'll be netting 400 each month . That's 400 dollars surplus from a 1200(after tax) dollar per month salary. To me this an enormous number, to me an additonal 400 dollars is wealth. I feel rich. hahaha I went on a shopping spree last week, buying lots of food! Now I can finally eat. And discretionary purchases were kitchen supplies,. And remember this no new clothing,no improvements, no impulse buys even if it a measly 50 cents, no extraneous purchases on the neccisites. Want text messaging for an extra 5 dollars a month, nope. Want hunts ketchup for an extra 30 cents, nope? None whatsoever, only the absolute bare necessities. It's this mindset of frugality that will lead you to a lifestyle without tenous danger, without being on the absolute edge. ANother person said she had pets, huge waste of money. Health insurance, are you on crack? Credit cards, nope? If you owe any debt, don't pay it> I owe over 10,000, it's called bankruptcy. Pay 1,000 at the most for an attorney or use your brain and file yourself, ironically I worked at a bankruptcy law firm while homeless and in debt. I know a woman who has a degree in political science. I know another woman who is licensed to practice law in two states; another friend has multiple degrees. Still another has a degree in anthropology. They are all struggling. First off I believe you should pick which ever degree is of your impassioned disposition; not one based on salary. As any college degree(bachlors) provides a solid standard of living,(compare me 14,400 with +400 monthly to 30,000 minimal) and what's the point of living if you're miserable. If I can rise out of homelessness and a few months later make 12 dollars an hour without even a high school degree, while obtaining a job in the field I'm going to college for while the same peers I go to school with intern there, than anyone can easily rise above me with a bachlor's degree, more experience and the age advantage. I did it by utilizing persuasion, dedication and intelligence. Instead of moping over the poor unemployment in my region I moved to the county with the lowest unemployment in my state and used an excellent cover letter(5) catered to different industries with basic sales skills during the interview process to gain a job(I still work 2). At the age of 21 I was getting 1-3 interviews a week, I've turned down jobs the past few weeks. So if you're poor be extermely frugal and waste nothing and continue to try and you'll prevail regardless of the current state. If you save, invest, and spend wisely it is no problem at all, but a very difficult and miserble existence. I lived off of minimum wage for a year and half, from feb 08-september 09.
For an entire year I lived off of an average of 500 dollars a month.Could you do this? From feb-september 08 I paid an average of 300 dollars a month for rent, so each month I had a slight surplus. However my entire savings were wiped out due to a family emergency, then wiped out again when I attempted to return to college. When returning I got a job that paid 500 dollars a month at best, and my rent was 400, along with gas each month I had zero surplus, actually I typically had to borrow 80 dollars each month from my father and pay him back a few weeks later, only to borrow it again. Living on so very little created a disaster of homelessness the moment an unexpected expense occured, for 2 weeks I was homeless at the age of 21 and then I gained another job,(2 jobs) and pulled myself out but sadly found myself in a similar predicament. I found a new place for 400 dollars a month, yet each month I had little to nor surplus due to my such low income. Just imagine living off of 500 dollars a month. I was invaribly hungry, in some periods I would go a week without eating, 2 weeks barely eating. I could never get food stamps because the unethical assholes I lived with wouldn’t admit I lived with them(tax evaders). No pleasures or neccesities outside of gas or minor food purchases.
Then I became homeless again when my temp. job ended for a week, then I lived with my parents for a month and in the first week got another job(minimum wage of course) along with working one day per hour week at a location 90 minutes away. Which was necessary even thou it cost almost 100 dollars in gas to drive there, it was still 200 dollars after cost. So anyways from that period until a few weeks ago, I lived on 900 a month. 400 for rent, 100 for utilities, 30 dollars for my phone, 100 for gas, 100 for food,20 for tobacco. That’s it, so I surplused 200 each month or intended to. However each month I’ve had to pay for expenses for my car, education, et cetra. Now I got another job, paying 12.25 an hour, more like 10.50 because it’s an education job(salary,-holidays) so with this job I’ll net 300 for the next few months, as now I’m paying back 100 dollar per month debt to my father and now I’m paying for car insurance/internet at 20 dollars a month. In january I’ll be netting 400 each month . That’s 400 dollars surplus from a 1200(after tax) dollar per month salary. To me this an enormous number, to me an additonal 400 dollars is wealth. I feel rich. hahaha
I went on a shopping spree last week, buying lots of food! Now I can finally eat. And discretionary purchases were kitchen supplies,. And remember this no new clothing,no improvements, no impulse buys even if it a measly 50 cents, no extraneous purchases on the neccisites. Want text messaging for an extra 5 dollars a month, nope. Want hunts ketchup for an extra 30 cents, nope? None whatsoever, only the absolute bare necessities. It’s this mindset of frugality that will lead you to a lifestyle without tenous danger, without being on the absolute edge. ANother person said she had pets, huge waste of money. Health insurance, are you on crack? Credit cards, nope? If you owe any debt, don’t pay it> I owe over 10,000, it’s called bankruptcy. Pay 1,000 at the most for an attorney or use your brain and file yourself, ironically I worked at a bankruptcy law firm while homeless and in debt.
I know a woman who has a degree in political science. I know another woman who is licensed to practice law in two states; another friend has multiple degrees. Still another has a degree in anthropology. They are all struggling.
First off I believe you should pick which ever degree is of your impassioned disposition; not one based on salary. As any college degree(bachlors) provides a solid standard of living,(compare me 14,400 with +400 monthly to 30,000 minimal) and what’s the point of living if you’re miserable. If I can rise out of homelessness and a few months later make 12 dollars an hour without even a high school degree, while obtaining a job in the field I’m going to college for while the same peers I go to school with intern there, than anyone can easily rise above me with a bachlor’s degree, more experience and the age advantage.
I did it by utilizing persuasion, dedication and intelligence. Instead of moping over the poor unemployment in my region I moved to the county with the lowest unemployment in my state and used an excellent cover letter(5) catered to different industries with basic sales skills during the interview process to gain a job(I still work 2). At the age of 21 I was getting 1-3 interviews a week, I’ve turned down jobs the past few weeks. So if you’re poor be extermely frugal and waste nothing and continue to try and you’ll prevail regardless of the current state.

]]> By: Alphacide http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-328584 Alphacide Tue, 06 Oct 2009 01:43:11 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-328584 If you save, invest and spend wisely. Its no problem at all. Perfect to support 1 person and a hobby or two. Its when you get more than one person it becomes hard. If you save, invest and spend wisely. Its no problem at all. Perfect to support 1 person and a hobby or two. Its when you get more than one person it becomes hard.

]]> By: sheila http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-328271 sheila Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:03:33 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-328271 well i will tell you this i live in tn my husband make 12 dollars an hour and there are 4 of us . we struggle every week to make ends meet! i feel for anyone that is trying to survive on min wage.. well i will tell you this i live in tn my husband make 12 dollars an hour and there are 4 of us . we struggle every week to make ends meet! i feel for anyone that is trying to survive on min wage..

]]> By: Sonnie http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-318287 Sonnie Mon, 27 Jul 2009 23:05:50 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-318287 I've read through alot of the older post, and if I understand the basic starting intent of this, the thought is that minimum wage should have kept up with inflation so that those caught up in the minimum wage job cycle were more able to get buy. I read some comments on private investments for retirement securities vs SSI, and some interesting comments on cost assosiated with income that individuals have. I don't think that there is any one answer to generate relief to these problems. I too have found myself makeing less than one third of my income, now that I'm un-employed. As far as planning, I may have not planned for this as well as i should have, but I'm here. I have been a plant manager or equal to for the last 15 years, started out on the floor in a large automotive supply company, and worked my way up. Took every improvement class i could, and was promoted continuously. I recently made a poor decision to transfer, or change jobs to better my home life as i was traveling 120 miles one way to be with my wife and childeren on the weekends, to a local less pay, job, that downsized me out 6 months after i took the position. Well, I have no Degree, have been recognized in severl automotive circles for outstanding results, such as doubling size's of facilities, provideing jobs for local comunities, etc. Now I can't find a job, minimum wage is less than Un-employment, and My less than adequate savings has been consumed. So now i have the 100k salary a year bills, with 15k a year income, do the math. I have networked, Job searched, and the majority of the states automotive supply companies are moveing the work elsewhere, Mexico, Tenn, Georgia etc. Im going on 90 days of un-employment, which by the way, is handled through a different state than MI, and May have an oportunity to reach %75 of my old income at a job, 150 miles away in about 30 more days. As far as SSI, I think the complexity of the government system to be controled by the guy who is working, does not take into consideration all the cost assosiated with SSI. Children of Deceast parants, disabilites, and it portion of medical care. simply allowing the average working guy, tends to leave out a few needs in the country that i think may suffer more than they do now otherwise. I agree that minimum wage should keep up with inflation, but i also think that we neglect to look at what cause's inflation, rising in cost's hence labor rates. I know in the automotive business i ran, that labor cost were not the largest portion of our cost, but as the labor rate goes up, so does the overhead that supports that labor, medical insurance, and other benifits. just increasing a number to meet another number thats growing seems kind of silly to me, find a way to stop, or decelerate inflation, not create was to afford it. Well i'm done ranting, Hope i have not offended anyone. sonnie I’ve read through alot of the older post, and if I understand the basic starting intent of this, the thought is that minimum wage should have kept up with inflation so that those caught up in the minimum wage job cycle were more able to get buy. I read some comments on private investments for retirement securities vs SSI, and some interesting comments on cost assosiated with income that individuals have. I don’t think that there is any one answer to generate relief to these problems. I too have found myself makeing less than one third of my income, now that I’m un-employed. As far as planning, I may have not planned for this as well as i should have, but I’m here. I have been a plant manager or equal to for the last 15 years, started out on the floor in a large automotive supply company, and worked my way up. Took every improvement class i could, and was promoted continuously. I recently made a poor decision to transfer, or change jobs to better my home life as i was traveling 120 miles one way to be with my wife and childeren on the weekends, to a local less pay, job, that downsized me out 6 months after i took the position. Well, I have no Degree, have been recognized in severl automotive circles for outstanding results, such as doubling size’s of facilities, provideing jobs for local comunities, etc. Now I can’t find a job, minimum wage is less than Un-employment, and My less than adequate savings has been consumed. So now i have the 100k salary a year bills, with 15k a year income, do the math. I have networked, Job searched, and the majority of the states automotive supply companies are moveing the work elsewhere, Mexico, Tenn, Georgia etc. Im going on 90 days of un-employment, which by the way, is handled through a different state than MI, and May have an oportunity to reach %75 of my old income at a job, 150 miles away in about 30 more days. As far as SSI, I think the complexity of the government system to be controled by the guy who is working, does not take into consideration all the cost assosiated with SSI. Children of Deceast parants, disabilites, and it portion of medical care. simply allowing the average working guy, tends to leave out a few needs in the country that i think may suffer more than they do now otherwise. I agree that minimum wage should keep up with inflation, but i also think that we neglect to look at what cause’s inflation, rising in cost’s hence labor rates. I know in the automotive business i ran, that labor cost were not the largest portion of our cost, but as the labor rate goes up, so does the overhead that supports that labor, medical insurance, and other benifits. just increasing a number to meet another number thats growing seems kind of silly to me, find a way to stop, or decelerate inflation, not create was to afford it. Well i’m done ranting, Hope i have not offended anyone.
sonnie

]]> By: Debbie http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-316318 Debbie Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:29:49 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-316318 I have to say that with me making $9.00 a hr. its extremely hard after my husband died. My car is my life line and work is two blocks away. When something breaks you have to give up something else. I had to turn off the gas when the water heater decided to up my bill triple from staying on high and you couldnt even shut it off! The gas company said to replace it~ A trailer heater is around $500. or turn off gas to heater which at this point I couldnt afford to pay the higher gas cost. I have a son 22 years that cant find a job. He has no deploma or GED and has tryed to get it but cant pass the test from being tested as being slow but cant get assisitance. So this is the break down: for 2 people to live on $9hr Health ins.$96 monthly only for myself rent $300 monthly for a trailer water $30 monthly average Electric $110 average monthly for the year Gas $110 average monthly for year (was) car ins. $60 monthly car gas $30 monthly phone $30 monthly internet $40 monthly food $400 monthly lowest-including dog food, cat food and soaps for laundry all things to keep you clean and your home clean. I Net $1200 monthly total $1206 with no gas I would save about $100 in the winter and $50 in summer. so I should have with out gas about $50 extra dollars. entertainment is internet and animals no cable no trailer insurance no food stamps (I make to much) My point is to go back to school to learn some other trade would be impossible. The cost of gas and ware on car what would that cost? even with loans and grants extra for school what would that cost? you would eat more to have energy since you are working and going to school what would that cost? Yes I could work somewhere else making $10 maybe even $12 a hr. But the car gas makes it to be the same amount I make now since the driving and ware on car costs triple if you have to drive 30 minutes. Sorry to poo-poo on others that think its easy to get ahead or move forward. May I invent something to get to a higher pay is the only thing I have been able to come up with! Any suggestions please let me know. I have to say that with me making $9.00 a hr. its extremely hard after my husband died. My car is my life line and work is two blocks away. When something breaks you have to give up something else. I had to turn off the gas when the water heater decided to up my bill triple from staying on high and you couldnt even shut it off! The gas company said to replace it~ A trailer heater is around $500. or turn off gas to heater which at this point I couldnt afford to pay the higher gas cost. I have a son 22 years that cant find a job. He has no deploma or GED and has tryed to get it but cant pass the test from being tested as being slow but cant get assisitance. So this is the break down: for 2 people to live on $9hr

Health ins.$96 monthly only for myself
rent $300 monthly for a trailer
water $30 monthly average
Electric $110 average monthly for the year
Gas $110 average monthly for year (was)
car ins. $60 monthly
car gas $30 monthly
phone $30 monthly
internet $40 monthly
food $400 monthly lowest-including dog
food, cat food and soaps for
laundry all things to keep you
clean and your home clean.
I Net $1200 monthly
total $1206
with no gas I would save about $100
in the winter and $50 in summer.
so I should have with out gas about
$50 extra dollars.

entertainment is internet and animals
no cable
no trailer insurance
no food stamps (I make to much)
My point is to go back to school to learn some other trade would be impossible.
The cost of gas and ware on car
what would that cost?
even with loans and grants extra for school
what would that cost?
you would eat more to have energy since you are working and going to school
what would that cost?
Yes I could work somewhere else making $10 maybe even $12 a hr. But the car gas makes it to be the same amount I make now since the driving and ware on car costs triple if you have to drive 30 minutes.
Sorry to poo-poo on others that think its easy to get ahead or move forward.
May I invent something to get to a higher pay is the only thing I have been able to come up with! Any suggestions please let me know.

]]> By: Ruan http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-312530 Ruan Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:21:52 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-312530 Here in South Africa we live on a lot less. There is a MASSIVE divide between rich and poor. Corrupt government officials hand out contracts worth 100's of millions of rands to their friends who never gets anything done. And they get a commission for doing so. While the poorest people who believed their lies live on what the government can give them cause they have no skills - in the area of 1.4 dollar per day. And we have people DYING from hunger for cryin' out loud. This is what really ticks me off about postings like this - you're not grounded in reality man. Here in South Africa we live on a lot less. There is a MASSIVE divide between rich and poor. Corrupt government officials hand out contracts worth 100’s of millions of rands to their friends who never gets anything done. And they get a commission for doing so.

While the poorest people who believed their lies live on what the government can give them cause they have no skills – in the area of 1.4 dollar per day.

And we have people DYING from hunger for cryin’ out loud.

This is what really ticks me off about postings like this – you’re not grounded in reality man.

]]> By: Brad http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-312522 Brad Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:30:07 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-312522 <i>So, don’t tell me I’m lazy and I just need to try harder. Ever.</i> Are you really so perfect you never need motivation or slack off? I have yet to meet someone in that category, though perhaps you are the first. (Though I have seen some (not you) who claim that.) I think I understand your point and I never meant to label you with that here. As an aside, they say good software developers are lazy. They want to get the job done in the least amount of time so they can goof off more. Turning the desire to not work into a productive asset is important, at least there. That said, I think I see why you dislike what I write so much. You see me saying, "you're lazy," when I am not saying any such thing. A lot of people are lazy, myself included (at least at times). Anyone who watches 1 hour of TV has 1 hour to improve themselves. You don't sound like you are in even that camp (though I have no idea if you are or not), but you don't appear to have quit and accepted your lot in life. If you don't trust others to make life work for you, why do you seem to insist that government makes life work for others? Isn't that the essence of a "living wage" and other such ideas? Make an external party force business owners to make a way for those who work for them? I keep saying I won't continue this.... Brad So, don’t tell me I’m lazy and I just need to try harder. Ever.

Are you really so perfect you never need motivation or slack off? I have yet to meet someone in that category, though perhaps you are the first. (Though I have seen some (not you) who claim that.) I think I understand your point and I never meant to label you with that here.

As an aside, they say good software developers are lazy. They want to get the job done in the least amount of time so they can goof off more. Turning the desire to not work into a productive asset is important, at least there.

That said, I think I see why you dislike what I write so much. You see me saying, “you’re lazy,” when I am not saying any such thing. A lot of people are lazy, myself included (at least at times). Anyone who watches 1 hour of TV has 1 hour to improve themselves.

You don’t sound like you are in even that camp (though I have no idea if you are or not), but you don’t appear to have quit and accepted your lot in life.

If you don’t trust others to make life work for you, why do you seem to insist that government makes life work for others? Isn’t that the essence of a “living wage” and other such ideas? Make an external party force business owners to make a way for those who work for them?

I keep saying I won’t continue this….

Brad

]]> By: Brad http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-312520 Brad Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:23:50 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-312520 Denise, I am completely against taking out loans for college. Don't get yourself into hock for something you can get otherwise. Lots of ways to go to school much cheaper exist. I am also not a great fan of higher education for everyone, in many ways. I do teach at the college level and am pondering a PhD, but I would not recommend that for everyone and a PhD for me would more be about completing what I started when I dropped out years ago rather than because of its true value. But back to your situation. You have shown that going for school without a definite goal is not productive. Even then, it may not be the best way to reach your own personal goal. The kind of education I "push" is self-education. Spend hours in a library learning things that are useful and that interest you. Even the stuff you wasted so much money on could have been learned by reading on your own, though I tend to agree with the implication of your post that a lot of such things are a waste, since they don't really work in the real world. Are you arguing that a company must be mandated (usually by government) to train you on the job? Or are you saying that a modern form of apprenticeship would be better for most people? The latter is something I definitely agree with, though many such opportunities exist if you are willing to work in addition to a "day job" or such. In fact, I am planning at working on some "unpaying" things this fall so I can build a name for myself in a given field. I am sure some here will still argue I have unfair advantages, but this is a conscious choice of my wife and I. Perhaps not the best "financial move," but I believe it will focus me better on my currently chosen path. It will also be a lot more fun, at right now, that is what I need. But a large part of it will be learning, so I practice what I preach in this area at least. Brad Denise, I am completely against taking out loans for college. Don’t get yourself into hock for something you can get otherwise. Lots of ways to go to school much cheaper exist.

I am also not a great fan of higher education for everyone, in many ways. I do teach at the college level and am pondering a PhD, but I would not recommend that for everyone and a PhD for me would more be about completing what I started when I dropped out years ago rather than because of its true value.

But back to your situation. You have shown that going for school without a definite goal is not productive. Even then, it may not be the best way to reach your own personal goal.

The kind of education I “push” is self-education. Spend hours in a library learning things that are useful and that interest you. Even the stuff you wasted so much money on could have been learned by reading on your own, though I tend to agree with the implication of your post that a lot of such things are a waste, since they don’t really work in the real world.

Are you arguing that a company must be mandated (usually by government) to train you on the job? Or are you saying that a modern form of apprenticeship would be better for most people? The latter is something I definitely agree with, though many such opportunities exist if you are willing to work in addition to a “day job” or such.

In fact, I am planning at working on some “unpaying” things this fall so I can build a name for myself in a given field. I am sure some here will still argue I have unfair advantages, but this is a conscious choice of my wife and I. Perhaps not the best “financial move,” but I believe it will focus me better on my currently chosen path.

It will also be a lot more fun, at right now, that is what I need. But a large part of it will be learning, so I practice what I preach in this area at least.

Brad

]]> By: netta http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-312414 netta Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:00:45 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-312414 Exactly. Denise, thanks so much for sharing your story. That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's not that people are stupid (you are evidently bright and articulate) or lazy. I have PhD in the School of Hard Knocks. Unfortunately, the pay scale sucks. Even with on-the-job training, the odds are still stacked against you. When I was 18, I didn't have the option to go to college. I had to get a job, two actually, to support myself. I went to a rural high school, where the guidance counselors figured girls just get married and have babies. Every job I've had I've risen through the ranks by hard work, paying attention, and taking every free on-the-job class or seminar I could. At one point, I was employed by a satellite office of a major insurance company. By this time I was in my early thirties and sure that I'd finally found the job from which I would retire. I took all the classes, seminars, etc. and ended up as high as I could go on the food chain. I applied for Senior Approver seven times, and was turned down each time because although I had the knowledge, I didn't have a degree. Then, they downsized and closed the office for economic reasons. I was back at square one. Of course, there's a lot more to this story -- throw in a bad marriage, a physical disability, three children, and various and sundry other Major Crisis (including a mother with terminal breast cancer) and here I am. No credit, no degree, but a stellar work ethic and the inability to quit. I'm a freelance writer with a novel in progress. I've educated myself on how to set up a website, write web copy, articles, essays, fiction, edit novels, social networking, SEO, etc. It's difficult, but for one, I love it and for two, I find it unacceptable to put my fate in the hands of an employer. Do I struggle? Yes, every damned day. Do I work my ass off? Yes, every damned day. But, at least I love what I do and I've done it on my own. I can see hope for the future when my book is on every damned shelf of Barnes and Noble. And it will, because I won't quit until it is. So, don't tell me I'm lazy and I just need to try harder. Ever. And I'm one of the lucky ones. As bad as it is right now, at least I know I have the brain to make it better, if I keep going. Exactly.

Denise, thanks so much for sharing your story. That’s exactly what I’m talking about. It’s not that people are stupid (you are evidently bright and articulate) or lazy.

I have PhD in the School of Hard Knocks. Unfortunately, the pay scale sucks. Even with on-the-job training, the odds are still stacked against you.

When I was 18, I didn’t have the option to go to college. I had to get a job, two actually, to support myself. I went to a rural high school, where the guidance counselors figured girls just get married and have babies.

Every job I’ve had I’ve risen through the ranks by hard work, paying attention, and taking every free on-the-job class or seminar I could. At one point, I was employed by a satellite office of a major insurance company. By this time I was in my early thirties and sure that I’d finally found the job from which I would retire.

I took all the classes, seminars, etc. and ended up as high as I could go on the food chain. I applied for Senior Approver seven times, and was turned down each time because although I had the knowledge, I didn’t have a degree.

Then, they downsized and closed the office for economic reasons. I was back at square one.

Of course, there’s a lot more to this story — throw in a bad marriage, a physical disability, three children, and various and sundry other Major Crisis (including a mother with terminal breast cancer) and here I am. No credit, no degree, but a stellar work ethic and the inability to quit.

I’m a freelance writer with a novel in progress. I’ve educated myself on how to set up a website, write web copy, articles, essays, fiction, edit novels, social networking, SEO, etc. It’s difficult, but for one, I love it and for two, I find it unacceptable to put my fate in the hands of an employer.

Do I struggle? Yes, every damned day. Do I work my ass off? Yes, every damned day. But, at least I love what I do and I’ve done it on my own. I can see hope for the future when my book is on every damned shelf of Barnes and Noble. And it will, because I won’t quit until it is.

So, don’t tell me I’m lazy and I just need to try harder. Ever.

And I’m one of the lucky ones. As bad as it is right now, at least I know I have the brain to make it better, if I keep going.

]]> By: Denise http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-312365 Denise Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:04:18 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-312365 I understand totally what netta is saying. In today's society, there is far too much emphasis placed on your education. Don't get me wrong. I believe education is important, but I believe that it is too often overvalued. In my grandfathers time, 12 years of schooling coupled with a good work ethic was all that was needed for a decent job with good pay. Nowadays, a person needs the same 12 years of schooling plus at least 4 years of college, plus-as poster Brad keeps saying-one needs to be better than anyone else. Getting a job has turned into a competition. But what, I would love to ask folks like Brad, are people who are simply average to do? We can't all be the best. We can't all be better than someone else. Sometimes just figuring out what one is somewhat good at is a challenge in and of itself. I take myself as an example. I went to a very small high school and did well. I graduated 10th out of about 65 students. Not the best, but not bad, either. But then I went on to college, and BOMBED, big time. I was up against many kids who had much more education than I did. As an example...I took Spanish my senior year in high school. I got an award for my grades in that class at the end of the year. (Oh, and btw, the school had no foreign language until my senior year, due to funding issues--hell, we had no bus transportation for a year due to that, so many "extra" classes just weren't offered. So I had no opportunity to take more than just that one year.) When I got to college, I figured I would keep up with my second language. I signed up for Spanish 101-supposedly for beginners said the description of the class. I figured it was perfect. I would be able to practice the lessons I had learned in high school and build from there. Guess again. The very first day of class, the professor walked in and stated that from that point on, no more English would be spoken in that room. What!!??!! I got an award for my grades in Spanish in high school, but I wasn't at that level. Come to find out, many of the students in that class had had 2 or more years of high school Spanish. I was behind from the get-go. I wound up dropping the class. Not to mention that I was going to school for Early Childhood Education. I figured I would do great because I had tons of experience with kids. I was a volunteer aide in high-school for a first-grade classroom, I took Child Care at our Vocational Center, plus I had oodles of babysitting experience. Wrong again. I wound up taking classes like Political Science and Chemistry to fulfill the "basics" credits-both of which I did horrible in, thus lowering my GPA. I had little in my high-school curriculum to back up these classes. I took Earth Science and Algebra and History back then...and math was a weak point anyway, so Chem 101 was a joke. I didn't get it at all. The classes that were actually for the degree were stupid as well. Instead of learning lesson planning, nutrition, discipline strategies, and such that would be helpful in a daycare setting, I learned the various theories of Freud, Piaget, and Maria Montessori. Even one of my professors said that they were simply theories and not proven, so they could be basically taken with a grain of salt. To sum up all of this...I got into $25,000 of student loan debt for this??? My one talent that I have found is that I can read. Very well, in fact. That said, I have a very limited focus. I can read novels in record time. Textbooks, encyclopedias, and that lot...take me forever. I have a very hard time keeping my brain "there" so to speak. So here I am, 38 years old, and I would have no clue what to say if people like Brad were to ask me what I was better than anyone else at. Not much. But does that make me less deserving of a decent paying job? Does that mean I should struggle simply to support myself? I don't see it that way. Everyone should have the opportunity to support one's self no matter where they are physically, educationally. College is expensive, not everyone can afford it-or want's to incur the debt of loans-or for that matter can even get a loan. I, personally wouldn't take another loan in my life. Thanks to the loans I took out, my credit is so screwed up. When I was 18, I didn't know that was even in the realm of possibility. I just thought when I signed the forms that I would someday have a job that would pay the loans back, and ta-da! Life would be good. We shouldn't be pushing those kinds of decisions on 18-year-olds just starting out their lives. Several of my friends are struggling still with loans they took out for school when they were 18. It's wrong on so many levels. I think more on-the-job training is called for. I understand totally what netta is saying. In today’s society, there is far too much emphasis placed on your education. Don’t get me wrong. I believe education is important, but I believe that it is too often overvalued.
In my grandfathers time, 12 years of schooling coupled with a good work ethic was all that was needed for a decent job with good pay. Nowadays, a person needs the same 12 years of schooling plus at least 4 years of college, plus-as poster Brad keeps saying-one needs to be better than anyone else. Getting a job has turned into a competition.
But what, I would love to ask folks like Brad, are people who are simply average to do? We can’t all be the best. We can’t all be better than someone else. Sometimes just figuring out what one is somewhat good at is a challenge in and of itself. I take myself as an example. I went to a very small high school and did well. I graduated 10th out of about 65 students. Not the best, but not bad, either.
But then I went on to college, and BOMBED, big time. I was up against many kids who had much more education than I did. As an example…I took Spanish my senior year in high school. I got an award for my grades in that class at the end of the year. (Oh, and btw, the school had no foreign language until my senior year, due to funding issues–hell, we had no bus transportation for a year due to that, so many “extra” classes just weren’t offered. So I had no opportunity to take more than just that one year.) When I got to college, I figured I would keep up with my second language. I signed up for Spanish 101-supposedly for beginners said the description of the class. I figured it was perfect. I would be able to practice the lessons I had learned in high school and build from there. Guess again. The very first day of class, the professor walked in and stated that from that point on, no more English would be spoken in that room. What!!??!! I got an award for my grades in Spanish in high school, but I wasn’t at that level. Come to find out, many of the students in that class had had 2 or more years of high school Spanish. I was behind from the get-go. I wound up dropping the class.
Not to mention that I was going to school for Early Childhood Education. I figured I would do great because I had tons of experience with kids. I was a volunteer aide in high-school for a first-grade classroom, I took Child Care at our Vocational Center, plus I had oodles of babysitting experience. Wrong again. I wound up taking classes like Political Science and Chemistry to fulfill the “basics” credits-both of which I did horrible in, thus lowering my GPA. I had little in my high-school curriculum to back up these classes. I took Earth Science and Algebra and History back then…and math was a weak point anyway, so Chem 101 was a joke. I didn’t get it at all. The classes that were actually for the degree were stupid as well. Instead of learning lesson planning, nutrition, discipline strategies, and such that would be helpful in a daycare setting, I learned the various theories of Freud, Piaget, and Maria Montessori. Even one of my professors said that they were simply theories and not proven, so they could be basically taken with a grain of salt. To sum up all of this…I got into $25,000 of student loan debt for this???
My one talent that I have found is that I can read. Very well, in fact. That said, I have a very limited focus. I can read novels in record time. Textbooks, encyclopedias, and that lot…take me forever. I have a very hard time keeping my brain “there” so to speak.
So here I am, 38 years old, and I would have no clue what to say if people like Brad were to ask me what I was better than anyone else at. Not much. But does that make me less deserving of a decent paying job? Does that mean I should struggle simply to support myself? I don’t see it that way. Everyone should have the opportunity to support one’s self no matter where they are physically, educationally. College is expensive, not everyone can afford it-or want’s to incur the debt of loans-or for that matter can even get a loan. I, personally wouldn’t take another loan in my life. Thanks to the loans I took out, my credit is so screwed up. When I was 18, I didn’t know that was even in the realm of possibility. I just thought when I signed the forms that I would someday have a job that would pay the loans back, and ta-da! Life would be good. We shouldn’t be pushing those kinds of decisions on 18-year-olds just starting out their lives. Several of my friends are struggling still with loans they took out for school when they were 18. It’s wrong on so many levels.
I think more on-the-job training is called for.

]]> By: TKC http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-310601 TKC Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:42:59 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-310601 Okay Min wage is not really a living wage. It's very hard to do especially if you are talking about more than one person living on that income. But one problem with raising the Minimum wage that politicians don't seem to take into account is that if you raise the Min wage - then law of cause and effect - that groceries, and basic items will go up in cost. Because the groceries and others... fast food places and whatnot have to charge more in order to pay their employees more. So thus the cost of living will also rise. It's a vicious cycle. Plus there will be companies that will "let go" of employees who are not productive enough to pay the new higher wage, or because they just simply can't afford X amount of employees at the new rate. I am very annoyed at the people who think that one who works at Min wage simply is not working hard enough, or needs a degree... A degree promises you NOTHING in this economy - except that you will be paying off debt on your college. Plus as many others mentioned - try to get a loan when you aren't really making enough to pay on one... And try to add classes to your 2-3 jobs. Working at Min wage doesn't imply that someone doesn't have good character...etc Don't judge them - you don't know what they are going through... you aren't in their shoes. You don't know the circumstances. And they may not easily be able to get out of the cycle. Okay Min wage is not really a living wage. It’s very hard to do especially if you are talking about more than one person living on that income.

But one problem with raising the Minimum wage that politicians don’t seem to take into account is that if you raise the Min wage – then law of cause and effect – that groceries, and basic items will go up in cost. Because the groceries and others… fast food places and whatnot have to charge more in order to pay their employees more. So thus the cost of living will also rise. It’s a vicious cycle. Plus there will be companies that will “let go” of employees who are not productive enough to pay the new higher wage, or because they just simply can’t afford X amount of employees at the new rate.

I am very annoyed at the people who think that one who works at Min wage simply is not working hard enough, or needs a degree… A degree promises you NOTHING in this economy – except that you will be paying off debt on your college. Plus as many others mentioned – try to get a loan when you aren’t really making enough to pay on one… And try to add classes to your 2-3 jobs. Working at Min wage doesn’t imply that someone doesn’t have good character…etc Don’t judge them – you don’t know what they are going through… you aren’t in their shoes. You don’t know the circumstances. And they may not easily be able to get out of the cycle.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-306289 Anonymous Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:15:16 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-306289 uhhhhh.... i wanna get an apartment. uhhhhh…. i wanna get an apartment.

]]> By: Brad http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-306022 Brad Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:47:43 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-306022 Netta, I am not sure where I called you a child, but that was certainly not my intention. Many do take offense when you challenge them to take personal action. I will accept that you are not one of those, but I have met far too many in my life to think it is a trend. Perhaps you are one of the rare exceptions, but I have found most of us (myself included) spend time in front of the TV and other places that we could apply to self-improvement. Sure, life sucks when you do that, but then the situation you presents has a pretty rough life anyway. Sometimes we all have to do things that are not pleasant for a while, though our society seems to be very short on that trait. I cannot guarantee that working hard will produce magical results, but you still didn't note what they should do. I am probably far from a "kiddo" too, though you can make assumptions of your own. (Though perhaps you are still older enough that I am a "kiddo" to you, perhaps not.) Stealing money from others in the form of taxes or raising some fake form of "living wage" is far from the solution. What am I supposed to do if I am an employer and want to hire someone who can only earn me $5/hour? How can I make it if I start paying them your "living wage" of more than that (especially including benefits). Where the money magically come from? I am most likely to bite the bullet and skip the work or just find a way to do it myself. Then the individual struggling to make it now makes nothing. That isn't a very good solution in my eyes. And what about those who really don't need the "living wage" you will mandate? Why should they lose the freedom to negotiate their work for what they are willing to receive because you make up some arbitrary level that is "fair"? Who is for freedom now? Brad Netta, I am not sure where I called you a child, but that was certainly not my intention. Many do take offense when you challenge them to take personal action. I will accept that you are not one of those, but I have met far too many in my life to think it is a trend.

Perhaps you are one of the rare exceptions, but I have found most of us (myself included) spend time in front of the TV and other places that we could apply to self-improvement.

Sure, life sucks when you do that, but then the situation you presents has a pretty rough life anyway. Sometimes we all have to do things that are not pleasant for a while, though our society seems to be very short on that trait.

I cannot guarantee that working hard will produce magical results, but you still didn’t note what they should do. I am probably far from a “kiddo” too, though you can make assumptions of your own. (Though perhaps you are still older enough that I am a “kiddo” to you, perhaps not.)

Stealing money from others in the form of taxes or raising some fake form of “living wage” is far from the solution. What am I supposed to do if I am an employer and want to hire someone who can only earn me $5/hour? How can I make it if I start paying them your “living wage” of more than that (especially including benefits). Where the money magically come from?

I am most likely to bite the bullet and skip the work or just find a way to do it myself. Then the individual struggling to make it now makes nothing. That isn’t a very good solution in my eyes.

And what about those who really don’t need the “living wage” you will mandate? Why should they lose the freedom to negotiate their work for what they are willing to receive because you make up some arbitrary level that is “fair”? Who is for freedom now?

Brad

]]> By: netta http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/try-living-on-minimum-wage.html/comment-page-1#comment-306005 netta Thu, 18 Jun 2009 22:30:49 +0000 http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/?p=4122#comment-306005 Dude, you make me so sad, for real. Again, you miss the point. You were the one that said these people just spend too much time in front of the TV and aren't applying themselves. You imply "all" it takes is a willingness to work harder and educate themselves and they can do it. In some cases, that is correct, but in the majority it's not, and there's a lot more to the problem than motivation or working hard. PEOPLE ARE ALREADY WORKING HARD. It's THAT attitude I particularly disagree with and resent. People need help. Bottom line. Whether it's a living wage, a hand from those who can, or a change in the attitude that people who are struggling so hard either brought it on themselves or deserve it because they don't work hard enough. I am not proposing despair as a solution, kiddo. Despair is a big part of the problem, and in spite of our differences of opinion, I pray that is something you never, ever experience. Dude, you make me so sad, for real. Again, you miss the point.

You were the one that said these people just spend too much time in front of the TV and aren’t applying themselves. You imply “all” it takes is a willingness to work harder and educate themselves and they can do it. In some cases, that is correct, but in the majority it’s not, and there’s a lot more to the problem than motivation or working hard. PEOPLE ARE ALREADY WORKING HARD. It’s THAT attitude I particularly disagree with and resent.

People need help. Bottom line. Whether it’s a living wage, a hand from those who can, or a change in the attitude that people who are struggling so hard either brought it on themselves or deserve it because they don’t work hard enough.

I am not proposing despair as a solution, kiddo. Despair is a big part of the problem, and in spite of our differences of opinion, I pray that is something you never, ever experience.

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