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United First Financial Money Merge Accounts: Scam or Legit?
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A reader recently sent an email asking about a program United First Financial runs called a Money Merge Account and whether it was legitimate. United First Financial promises that the program, which costs $3500, would have you pay off the mortgage in one-third to one-half the time it normally would take. Knowing nothing about money merge accounts and knowing a little bit more about simple math, I smelled a fat $3500 scam brewing. The only scenario in which I could see $3500 cutting your mortgage in half is if you had a $7000 mortgage. But, setting my mental scam alerts aside, I did some more research about the plan.
Apparently it’s a fancy name for an accelerated mortgage repayment scheme. The first step in the money merge account is to take out a second mortgage on your home, a home equity line of credit. Then, what you do pay your entire paycheck towards the first mortgage and withdraw money from the HELOC to cover your expenses. You save a little money because the interest on a HELOC is calculated based on average daily balance rather than the final monthly balance. This lets you pay off more of the mortgage at the beginning of the month and then be charged less interest on the HELOC. (this assumes the same interest rate, which is a big flaw)
However, the plan also has a lot of other assumptions and flaws.
- It assumes that your HELOC interest rate will be the same as your first mortgage interest rate – very unlikely. The bigger the HELOC rate, the less you save on that difference.
- It assumes a single monthly paycheck so it’s a plan that loses some of its power if you are paid irregularly or every two weeks.
- One big flaw is that there is never discussion of HELOC fees. I’ve never opened a HELOC but I imagine it’s not free.
- This plan requires that you don’t save at all for anything else. Since your entire paycheck goes towards the mortgage and you withdraw expenses, it penalizes you drawing on the HELOC for non-essentials. Why pay $100 towards a 6-7% mortgage and then borrow $100 from a 10% HELOC?
- Finally, as if all those weren’t enough, you have to pay $3,500 for a program to help you do this!?
In researching this article I researched a lot of sites and they were nearly unanimous in their opinion that these types of programs are not worth the money (not surprisingly). They’re not scams in the sense that you pay your $3500 and they disappear into the night but it’s something you can do yourself.
This begs the question, should you use it to force discipline? I could justify paying $100 to enforce discipline because it can save you quite a bit in the long run, if you can overcome the failings, but $3500 is ridiculous. If you have $3500 and you want to pay off your mortgage sooner, send a $3500 check to your mortgage company. (if you want a legitimate and easy way to pay off a mortgage faster, consider making mortgage payments every two weeks)
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Forgive me for not wanting to read the over 800+ posts but was there ever a definite/proven conclusion to this debate?
In a word, no. The proof that I offer to show the program is a scam is usually rejected by any agent. When I show that MMA itself does not provide any numerical advantage, they go off on what I consider a tangent, avoiding any discussion of numbers and sticking with motivation.
The last agent insisted that the ‘extra money’ one has from the 26 checks most of us get per year is money that MMA uses to drive its success, but that I am not allowed to plug those funds into a spreadsheet, even every six months as it occurs. “Because no one takes that check and sends it to their mortgage.” If anyone wants to deal with people whose goal is to obfuscate otherwise simple matters, it’s a free country.
When I see a teen texting and walking into traffic, I grab their arm to keep them from an accident. I have no such power when it comes to protecting people from this scam. People are so desperate for a ’system’ they will believe anything. Does that answer your question?
Yes. So then what would you consider to be the best way to pay down your mortgage?
Each month, along with your regular payment, add additional funds designated for principal.
Of course, you should first have no other higher interest debt. Silly to pay the mortgage down while owing money at 18%.
This is what MMA does, it uses your money to pay your mortgage. It just makes outrageous claims as well. To be fair, it will tell you that 18% is a number higher than 6%. This fact is beyond many people, and all MMA users.
I don’t know who you are talking to, but the United First Financial MMA program is no scam. The principle idea it is based on has been in existence for decades in Great Britain and Australia( to name two examples). Your explanation or claim offers no proof. You refute the arguement of it’s actual positive and honest way the MMA program helps one pay off a mortgage(and any other possible debt), by making claims of what I would call “snippets of a possible conversation” you MIGHT of had with a UFF agent. I AM AN AGENT. I will not try to write a “novel” of reasons, possible explanations, or stating my “case”. Anyone reading this should do their research from credible sources. Online blog websites are not always realiable… I CAN EXPLAIN THE PROCESSS AND SATISFY ANYONE’S CURIOSITY. Contact me with questions, I would be happy to explain in more detail.
What I cannot do is change your mind when you have no intention of entertaining the concept or having an open mind. You may email me your response. Thank
John, JoeTaxpayer above knows the MMA better than any agent out there. He, and I, have used the MMA. It is inefficient, and the way it is marketed makes it a scam. Backup for those claims has been provided all over these 877+ comments, and on Joe’s blog, where he did ~30 entries in his series on the MMA.
Also, you offered to answer emails, but you provided no address to send those emails to.
I was just doing a google to seek if this scam shack was still in biz. I signed up to be an agent about 2 years. ago. After running my own analysis and computing it…it was clearly evident the whole thing is a scam. I’ve argued with Branch Managers for hours on end. They are blinded by their greed and they have been brainwashed to believe it actually works.
- the whole heloc thing is a joke.
- as 800 others have stated here…it’s simply taking your discretionary income and paying it toward your payment. I kept printouts of my proof when I did the analyses.
SCAM!!!!
Former Agent
One other thing…the whole bi-weekly thing, etc, that’s a joke as well. Run your own analysis!
Basically, here is what it comes down to. If you pay down your loan of 5% interest with extra money…you earning a little over 5% return on investment on your extra money. If you can earn over 5% on your money (I as an investor do that all day long). If you can’t…then pay your mortgage off early.
In light of the 800+ posts and remembering that ANYONE can say ANYTHING on this blog or forum, by the very definition, the MMA is NOT a scam.
I’ve been over this several times here and there are certain individuals who are intent on saving ALL of America from this “scam”.
By their definition, if I take my car to the Jiffy Lube and “pay” them to change my oil when I could have changed it myself, Jiffy Lube is a scam.
The DIY from JoeT and others here is THEORY! In theory it is a good system, in REALITY it certainly isn’t better than the Money Merge Account or any other “technology” that will continually keep you on track.
We all have our “opinions” and JoeT’s is that you can Do It Yourself, and he even provides a spreadsheet to assist you. He doesn’t coach you, he has no customer support, and he doesn’t have 80,000 clients on HIS system.
If you are paying an “extra” $100 per month toward your mortgage principle, and you get a 3% raise next month, will you now increase that extra amount to $103?, probably not.
As pointed out, the MMA uses ALL of your income and it WILL use that extra paycheck when you are on a bi-weekly income. I’ve been surveying people, and NO ONE takes that extra paycheck and puts it ALL towards their principle, again, that’s just THEORY.
Chris, do yourself a favor, and get on the Money Merge Account, if you save $50,000 and and you pay for a system to do that, you win and its certainly NOT a scam. Just because a few guys think you SHOULD be able to do this yourself, most simply don’t and that makes you, in their opinion an idiot.
I’m the “last agent” JoeT refers to, and in their DIY scenario, the MMA would beat their $50/month discretionary DIY scenario by $63,000 and yes the “technology” of the MMA found the extra paychecks. That doesn’t make the MMA a scam, it simply “proves” that the MMA is a great system and will BETTER utilize all of your income and expenses than ANY DIY system.
Everyone I help get on the Money Merge Account is very appreciative that I introduced them to such a terrific technology, the ONLY negative that I’ve heard is that they wish they’d known about it earlier or that they wish they hadn’t delayed getting on it.
JoeT – if its truly a scam, call the AG and the US DOJ and have them shut down.
Chris – If you want to spend $3500 to have software tell you to “put all your extra funds toward your mortgage” be my guest.
You’ll notice part of any fraud is the obfuscation, the distraction, like at a carnival. No agent can engage in a discussion without the strange analogies. I go to Jiffy Lube because the oil+time/labor they charge is less than my DIY.
DIY cost for MMA is ‘zero’, but the software from UFirst is $3500 + God knows how much time to enter all your data every day ten times per day. My sheet takes one entry per month.
Take all the time it will save you and go enjoy a good book, War and Peace for all the time you’d gain every month.
If you truly believe that MMA taking your own money (the so-called extra check from the 13 you get every 6 months) and sending that money to the bank is really a “technology” and that MMA is responsible for the savings from that money (which is large, it’s nearly equal to a bi-weekly mortgage) then you should go for it.
I can’t stop you. remember, Madoff lasted how many years before he was exposed. Even when there were people trying very hard.
Chris, when I see you on your smart phone typing in your latest purchase to see how many minutes or hours that money just extended your mortgage, and you are walking into traffic, I promise to still grab your arm and pull you back. Ok?
Nick – You are dishonest to keep telling me I can use $50/mo, but not the extra $1800 that appears twice per year. I offered to enter it exactly that way, twice per year on the sheet. There’s the $63,000 difference. Easy to find, easy to expose. Apples to apples.
I am one of many who know this is a scam. I don’t ‘think’ it, I know it to be true.
Survey? You can say anything. Meaningless. The numbers don’t lie, and I’ve shown numbers.
I now understand a lot better how your mind works with the Jiffy Lube illustration. You simply aren’t very good at math.
I can get 5 quarts of oil for less than $10 and if I go to Jiffy Lube I never get out of there for less than $20, so by your equation $20 is less than $10.
Using that logic, no wonder you think the DIY numbers beat the MMA.
As for being dishonest, feel free to use the extra paychecks in your THEORY. I’ve never said you COULDN’T use the extra paycheck.
If you want apples to apples, the ONLY way to really settle this is to find to families that make exactly the same amount, have the same bills, with the same number of children, getting the same raises and have the same expenses, have one DIY and the other MMA and see what the results will be.
So until you can arrange that side by side apples to apples scenario, its just speculative.
As for the time to run the MMA program per month, its typically in the range of 5 – 10 minutes per week and you don’t enter in every purchase, that’s not what the program does.
To correct your statement above, you are one of many who “would like it to be” a scam. If people spend the money on the program and it saves them far more than the cost of the program, its hardly a scam, by ANYONE’s definition except yours.
Like I’ve said before, the REFINANCE costs are ripping people off far more than the MMA ever could be twisted into losing people money. Maybe you should shift horses (that’s where the real burr should be) and start educating people with all your numbers and save them THOUSANDS by NOT refinancing.
Call the AG and the US DOJ and get uFirst shut down, have you made that call yet?
Nick,
Shouldn’t the burden of proof be on the guy who’s hawking the $3,500 software (and receives a commission on the sale) rather than on the guy who’s saying you could do as well for free (no commission)?
Have you tried JoeTax’s spreadsheet or one of the few on vertex42 dotcom and input the identical numbers? Seems to me this would be an opportunity for you to prove that MMA blows away DIY and to shut up all the electrical engineers, mathematicians and comp-sci guys who dealt me a smackdown about six months ago. My guess, as a former UFF agent who never fully drank the Kool-Aid, is that you’ll be surprised that DIY does almost as well (and in many cases, better) than MMA.
I do agree with you on America’s overuse of refis (since most extend the mortgage again and lower payments so the customer can buy more junk they don’t need on credit) but I don’t think JT is a mortgage broker. As you know, the principals of UFF – basking in the no-more refi “salvation” of MMA?! – are/were.
My time to buy oil + my labor to change oil is greater in value than the $20. ‘Nuff said about oil.
What you said was MMA was still $63,000 ahead of DIY. Only after you sent me your PDF and I pointed out that you told me $50 extra per month, but were using $300 or so did you then claim that the extra money was found by MMA and that I couldn’t use it in my sheet. The sheet tells me that the entire $63,000 is accountable by looking at those two extra checks.
Why would one need to find real families for a discussion based on math? You offer an analysis, which hides the true facts, I offer a spreadsheet which is open to scrutiny.
You don’t enter every purchase? Well, Jennifer Hartman, respected agent extraordinaire touts the email/smart phone feature which enables you to use MMA to help you decide whether it’s the best time of the month to buy that steak on sale. I trust steak is sub-$10/lb by you, and no more than 2 lbs to feed 4, so she encourages users to query MMA for $20 purchases. Sounds to me like her victims are using it every day, or more frequently.
I concede that refis are probably costing people. I concede that people who refinance may not really understand their time to break even and recoup those costs in their saving due to a lower rate. But, just like motor oil, it has nothing to do with MMA. I’ve offered to donate money to the favorite charities of agents who could get through a few posts with no analogies, no similes, and no metaphors. No one accepted and I’ve withdrawn the offer.
MMA is like so many things, I can’t begin to list them. If it worked, and if it were free, it would be a lot like my spreadsheet.
I would like to take this moment to say farewell to JamesOatesIII whose MMA site is now down. Another agent is gone. We’ll miss you, James.
MMA sounds way to complicating in an already hectic world. I understand how every purchase consumes the very funds that we all need to grow and work for us, but really…checking your software before buying groceries.
I’ll be keeping my $3500 and paying down early on my own. Thanks.
So now we have a guy who will now test the DIY THEORY.
Good luck with the REALITY of life.
Here’s the challenge, post here what the MMA says you would have paid in additional principle at the end of year number 1 and in 1 year let’s see what you ACTUALLY paid down.
If DIY doesn’t beat the MMA estimate, let’s revisit using the MMA.
And JoeT, math is truly just math, but you are missing the point about REALITY. Math can never figure into REALITY and although DIY THEORTICALLY can match the MMA’s analysis (which probably uses the same math), we know statistically that 80% of the people on the program are 15%-25% ahead of the estimate, so what does that say about just looking at math?
Chris, talk with several people ON the program about how “complicated” it is to use before making a decision. Its not that hard, these guys trying to save you $3,500 by making it sound complicated could wind up costing you $10,000 or more over the life of your loan.
You can even google me (stnick007) I’m easy to find and talk to.
Nic, you’ve got another guy here who tested the “DIY theory” – me. I paid off my house by amortizing over 20 years, and setting up automatic double payments with my bank, and sending what extra we could, when we could. If my wife or I had lost our jobs, we could have reverted to the original payment.
We paid it off in a lot less than 20 years.
That plan not only beat the MMA by months, it saved $3500, plus interest, plus the inefficiencies of the MMA. Plus, it saved us time logging into the MMA, entering our updated balances, and making the recommended transfers between accounts.
And the thing is, if you have the self-discipline to log into the MMA every month and do the manual data entry, you have the self-discipline to take your bank balance, subtract a contingency, and send the remainder to your highest rate debt every month. By doing that, you’ll beat (not just match) the MMA. Every time.
That’s reality.
The Reality seems to be that you charge people $3500 to complicate things that might be otherwise able to do on their own.
Nick,
Can you please provide a synopsis of all your statistics? I just can’t keep up. 80% are “15%-25%” ahead? Amazing. Since at the original analysis, one reports ‘all’ income, how exactly do you account for such a large discrepancy? MMA is only a few years old, and raises have been slow and small these past years.
My own data shows that 100% of users have been robbed of $3500 and they are a small subset of people who are innumerate and financially illiterate. Since you say “math can never figure into reality”, I wonder how you explain the success you attribute to MMA. Does it not use math?
Speaking of stats. How do you explain the fact that agents are leaving en masse? Falling down like dominoes. What are your plans for the next MLM you plan to sell? There are many out there, I don’t follow any others, though.
The Reality is that you won’t do it as well on your own as you would with the program because people don’t use all 4 strategies that the program uses and they always hold something back that the program and these strategies would have used more efficiently.
As far as agents leaving United First Financial, I don’t know and could really care less. Everyone knows that in ANY organization only about 10%-20% of the people do the vast majority of the business. So if they are just playing around with an opportunity that could earn them well in excess of $250,000 per year, let them move on and NOT do something somewhere else.
I have no other plans. My plan is to help tens of thousands of Americans pay off their mortgage using the Money Merge Account, teaching them to build wealth and net worth, and building an army of talented and hard working agents that no amount of calling the Money Merge Account a scam will even be a blip on the radar.
Jaime Buckley wasn’t playing around. He lives in Utah and was so close to the UFirst head office, he created and ran the “Official Ufirst Forums”, sanctioned by head office. He founded “The Jubilee Project”, and made the MMA its centerpiece.
Jaime Buckley lost his house last year.
StNick, pray tell, what are these 4 strategies that MMA excels at?
http://activerain.com/blogsview/48018/Money-Merge-Accounts-Are
Check out this example. Since I’m good about CC debt and saving money, I’ll just stick to the DIY method…
I have just downloaded the spreadsheet that Joe T talked about at vertex42 dot com. What a great tool. Thank you so much.. You just saved me $3,500. This sheet does everything and showed me how to be debt free in 8 years. If I use the $3,500 I would have spent on the other program I will be out of debt in 6 years 5 months. Reading the post above and trying the FREE program I just saved 1 1/2 years of payments and interest.
Do yourself a favor and try the program before you waste your money and put it in someone eles pocket.
Thank You.
What was the actual name of the spreadsheet at Vortex42 or does someone have a link?
I’m curious. If someone comes to your door, offers you a program that cost $3500. and tells you that you need this program, you tell them you can do it yourself and they tell you that you will not have the discipline to do it yourself, is that not an insult? I was insulted when they said that to me!
Mary – there are actually things I can’t do myself, whether due to lack of knowledge, strength, or interest.
The insult comes from the fact that they are saying you can’t determine which debt to pay first, a 24% credit card or a 4% student loan. The fact that they create confusion about the very process of interest and time value of money is insulting. They prey on people’s ignorance, by definition, one who falls for this scam is innumerate.
Elsewhere, I asked an agent what she’d choose, a deposit to a 100% matched 401(k) or to pay off her 5% mortgage. No surprise, here was her response:
“I would really hesitate to put my money into something that has lost an average of 30% recently. Most of the people that had a 401(k) don’t now, whether their employer matched their contribution or not.”
The typical agent is so financially unaware, that following their advice, which UFirst says they should not be giving, would cost you dearly. This agent was unaware that 401(k) does not mean 100% stocks. For the conservative investor, there are fixed rate or short term bond funds. This is beyond ignorant, it’s criminal.
JoeT,
Have you seen the Hall of Fame PPT yet? If not and if you still have my gmail address, shoot me yours and I’ll forward it. I think you’ll enjoy crunching numbers about successful agents.
NJB82
I keep reading these posts by people who apparently have an axe to grind. That’s fine, it’s America and free speech is still mostly intact.
But I still object to the use of the word SCAM.
If I meet someone who is doing NOTHING, I teach them our four strategies and they take me up on the offer to utilize our technology which will STILL do Better than a DIY just from shear systemization, the Money Merge Account will beat the DIY in “reality” not theory by BETTER utilizing a person’s income.
I KNOW the “theory” is to take all of the so called discretionary income and use it, but in “reality” people do NOT use ALL of it as no one feels comfortable sending it ALL to their mortgage.
So I’d like to hear any of you naysayers say that when I help someone who was doing nothing to get on a program to help them pay their home off in 5, 6, or 7 years how that the Money Merge Account really isn’t a SCAM!
While its true that DIY will help them pay it off faster than doing NOTHING, that in and of itself does not make the Money Merge Account a SCAM.
I had a potential client who was doing nothing to accelerate paying off their home, our analysis showed they would save $940,000 in interest and they were talked out of using the program. They are still doing NOTHING to pay off their home other than the 30 year plan.
So what did your meddling cost this family???
$940,000 essentially, that looks like something I’d put on my resume’, I saved a guy $3,500 but it cost him $940,000, I’m so proud of myself.
By all definitions of the word, this product is a scam.
In just the example where you told me to run numbers with $50/mo extra, you conveniently failed to disclose the full extra month’s pay that comes from bi-weekly paychecks. When I point that out, you go in a circle.
In theory you claim the savings of $940,000. In reality you ignore the time value of money.
In my last post I quote an agent who states her own facts, that most people who had a 401(k) no longer do. Really? Even those who sold at the recent bottom didn’t lose it all. But she is unaware of any real numbers, so she makes them up. Her data manages to justify ignoring a dollar for dollar match in a 401(k) in favor of paying off a 6% mortgage. Of course it does, anything to get that commission.
You know this blog pings us when anyone posts. The more you write the more you show how MMA = #fail. By fail, I mean scam. Happy New Year, Nick.
I think that family was very lucky! I wished I hadn’t spent my money on the program and had simply walked away from this whole mess. I get mad every time I think about how much money I lost, for a login to a spreadsheet that doesn’t do anything. Now that family doesn’t have to go through what I did. They made a very smart decision.